[00:00:00] Emily Race-Newmark: Welcome to This is How We Care, a podcast where we look at what it means to embody care, not as an individual practice, but a collective one, and to see what kind of world emerges from this place. Thank you for being here. I'm your host, Emily Race. Welcome to This is How We Care, a podcast where we look at what it means to embody care, not as an individual practice, but a collective one, and to see what kind of world emerges from this place.

[00:00:28] Emily Race-Newmark: Thank you for being here. I am your host, Emily Race.

[00:00:32] Emily Race-Newmark: Today we are joined by Yael Drier Shilo, one of the founding members and currently the financial director for Standing Together. She has been a political activist since her teenage years and has taken part in many political struggles for peace and social justice in Israel.

[00:00:50] Yael Drier Shilo: My story and the story of Standing Together does weave together. 

[00:00:54] Yael Drier Shilo: I was one of the founding members. At the time, myself and I think a lot of other people, we were political activists. Something terrible would happen, and we would set up a demonstration against it. And then go back to our lives. And then things will slowly deteriorate and then something more horrible will happen and we will do a demonstration. And so this was the situation. 

[00:01:13] Yael Drier Shilo: In 2015, there was a series of attacks. It is sometimes called the "Lone Wolf intifada". It's a surge of violence that happened in 2015, October 2015, that also had Palestinian citizens of Israel committing violent attack, which is something very uncommon before that. And the feeling of really a fast deterioration in the relationships, both between Israelis and Palestinians and inside Israel, between Palestinian citizens of Israel and the Jewish community.

[00:01:42] Yael Drier Shilo: We felt there is a need to really safeguard solidarity and try to deescalate the situation and stop the deterioration that happening. And it started with the demonstration in Jerusalem, which was under the slogan of, "Not giving up to despair, but standing together."

[00:01:59] Yael Drier Shilo: That's where the name came from. We thought it would be like a few hundred people and it was thousands of people. And that gave us hope that, "Okay, this message is not just us, there are other looking for this messaging—wanting that hope that we're giving and trying to build things that are different."

[00:02:15] Yael Drier Shilo: And we felt, "We can't just go back to waiting for the next time things will be really, really bad and having demonstrations and we want to really work for effective change. And to do that, we need to organize people and we need to build structure that works day to day. So that if the situation will deteriorate, we will have this network. But not only to prepare for the worst, but to work to change things for the better and to work on different subjects as well." 

[00:02:42] Yael Drier Shilo: We were not just about fighting the occupation and equality between Jews and Arabs inside Israel. Those are, of course, important and main issues for us. But we wanted to have a joint organization of Palestinian citizens of Israel and Jewish citizens of Israel fighting for a better society, in all matters of facts, of social justice, climate justice, LGBTQ rights—everything that we want to see in our society. And doing that as a joint struggle, as partners and as equals.

[00:03:16] Yael Drier Shilo: That was our vision, and that was our starting point. 

[00:03:18] Yael Drier Shilo: We started at a very low point in Israeli society, in very harsh times. We built upon that to try and build something better. One of our main slogans from that time until this day is, "Where there is political struggle, there is hope." Which we stand by. We are being optimistic. We are being hopeful because we are fighting for something better. 

[00:03:38] Yael Drier Shilo: Today we have thousands of members. It's a grassroots democratic organization. Right now we are very much about what is going on currently, obviously. But before October 7th, we did activities on a lot of different subjects. We came very close to raising the minimum wage. But then the government collapsed so we couldn't. Hopefully we'll be able to do that after things calm down, and other very important struggles as well. 

[00:04:02] Emily Race-Newmark: I wanted to start with this episode for the beginning of season two because of its timeliness with what's currently happening in Israel and Palestine and the conversations that have been unfolding globally.

[00:04:16] Emily Race-Newmark: I have to say, I come into this recording feeling like it's inadequate.

[00:04:20] Emily Race-Newmark: It's inadequate to cover the full range and scope of what needs to really be said, what perspectives need to be shared. And I can't lie to you, I think some of that feeling of inadequacy is also rooted in my own fear of being inadequate, as a podcast host, as a person in this world, that I'm not doing enough, that I'm not saying enough.

[00:04:40] Emily Race-Newmark: And so I just wanna share that very transparently with you as being transparent and authentic is a huge value of this podcast.

[00:04:47] Emily Race-Newmark: And this is a starting point. And I chose to start here for a couple of reasons.

[00:04:53] Emily Race-Newmark: I wanted to choose a person, an organization that was close to the ground of what's happening in Israel and Palestine, who could also bring a perspective of solidarity, of peace, a vision for what could be.

[00:05:08] Emily Race-Newmark: And I also feel like that's limited, that not one person, not one organization could hold all of the wisdom, all of the ideas, all of the truth that needs to be shared here.

[00:05:21] Emily Race-Newmark: But again, I do think this is a starting point. 

[00:05:23] Emily Race-Newmark: I will give a little bit of background of what had unfolded for myself prior to getting to this point.

[00:05:29] Emily Race-Newmark: One thing you should know is that many of the conversations for this season were recorded well before October 7th, when Hamas attacked Israeli citizens. 

[00:05:39] Emily Race-Newmark: I struggled in the aftermath of that to really find some footing in terms of how can I show up right now. I fortunately was going through the rebranding of the podcast at this time and was able to root myself in some of the values that we were defining for this podcast, for myself and my own life.

[00:05:55] Emily Race-Newmark: And those were values of being curious and open to learning, of being honest, authentic, and transparent around what we're experimenting with and trying and learning and experiencing. To come from a place of deep care, of truly giving a shit, and to do this in community, to do this in collaboration with others.

[00:06:17] Emily Race-Newmark: And I have tried my best to navigate from that place, all while being very human in the process. And the human parts of myself have been simultaneously navigating the first trimester of a pregnancy, moving several times across states, all with the toddler in tow, all while going through many personal, interpersonal conversations with loved ones, many who hold almost opposing views in what's currently happening and the history of how we got here, specifically in Israel and Palestine. And me doing my best to navigate those conversations with all the values that I shared above. While also being very human, right? And wanting to hold on to a sense of safety in those relationships, in my relationship to others.

[00:07:07] Emily Race-Newmark: And, there's the added layer of social media. Every time I logged on to social media ever since October 7th, I found my whole nervous system has been hijacked and you may resonate with what I'm saying, depending on what comes up my screen, and I do follow a wide range of perspectives there. You could see any number of, again, contradictory, horrific, grotesque, completely inhumane content being shared and in that feeling super disoriented in terms of what do I believe here and how do I respond to this?

[00:07:42] Emily Race-Newmark: And for myself feeling this immense pressure to say something but to have it be the right thing. And I had to notice where within that it was really being driven by a sense of needing to perform. Needing to perform so that I could feel safe, like I belong. That feeling of safety that comes from belonging.

[00:08:01] Emily Race-Newmark: In this, I've also oscillated to retreating, to retreating into silence, to retreating into that comfort of just being in the reality of the four walls in front of me. And many times this felt imperative to regroup and to pause and to check in with myself. 

[00:08:18] Emily Race-Newmark: And like I said, I was going through a lot of other personal stressors at the time. I recognize now, that I spent those past three months or so really at a depleted state. It was very difficult for me to even find time to process how I was feeling, and very much in isolation. 

[00:08:35] Emily Race-Newmark: I experienced one community gathering at a synagogue for Shabbat that we had to leave shortly after it started because our toddler was not able to stay, it was too loud for her, unfortunately, but it was a very small glimpse at what it could be like to grieve in community and to hold that wide range of emotions that we're feeling in our bodies safely in a space with others. And I cannot emphasize enough how important that felt to me in that moment, how much I grieved having to leave that space sooner than I was ready to, and how I see that being an important piece here. 

[00:09:15] Emily Race-Newmark: And I questioned whether I should scrap the entire season of this podcast and start over and make the whole season about Israel Palestine and bring in all these different perspectives because if we're going to look at How We Care, what better lens to look at than what's happening right now in our metaphorical backyards for those who are in the United States and for some of us in our literal backyards.

[00:09:40] Emily Race-Newmark: And I recognize that that also was not the right approach for me, nor this podcast. There are so many episodes that were recorded prior to this moment that deserve to be shared, that have important messages and wisdom within them, right? That I think, actually, even if they're not directly speaking to what's happening currently today, acknowledging that that wisdom can be carried with us to meet whatever the moment of today is bringing.

[00:10:08] Emily Race-Newmark: So whether that is what's occurring in Gaza, in Israel, in Palestine, or in some other facet of our lives, some other facet of our direct communities, our global community, that we can take the wisdom from all of these guests in one way or another and really root ourselves into this practice, this embodiment of collective care.

[00:10:29] Emily Race-Newmark: So all that is a big preamble to say that this is not the one conversation, right? There's many perspectives, many conversations, many layers to look at here. It's impossible to capture everything that is a part of this moment, its historical roots, the present and future impacts, the identities at play, the role of politics, money, and power systems, the layers of ancestral trauma, the trauma that's being created and recreated in bodies right now. To account for the lives, the countless lives that are being lost, that have been lost, and the role that social media has been playing in all of this, the ways in which that is helping to inform us, to ignite us, and also to divide us, and the ways in which people are either forcibly or self-selecting silence. There's something for me, around that piece that feels really important to just name, and most prominent for me, is the ways in which we're making villains of one another. Again, it's impossible to cover all of these pieces in this one conversation, but those are some things that I just wanted to touch on and name as we bring this topic to light because if we could cover that all, we would, and perhaps me just voicing that is shining a bit of light on what else is here. And again, there's so much that I didn't name.

[00:11:51] Emily Race-Newmark: But one thing I did take away from this that really was helpful to hear and to ground myself in is how we approach those conversations. And Yael will get to that towards the end when we look at some actions and some practices you can take in your own lives. 

[00:12:07] Emily Race-Newmark: One thing that's important to say, especially in a platform like a podcast, just notice that we each bring a particular filter of listening to every conversation. 

[00:12:16] Emily Race-Newmark: Perhaps taking a moment to check whatever your predisposed filters may be coming into this one and not making that wrong at all, but just acknowledging that I'm a person, a human entering this moment in time, entering this conversation as a listener, as an observer, holding this in my body, holding this in my heart, holding this in my mind. 

[00:12:37] Emily Race-Newmark: I think that's an important check in, if you're able to do so, before we dive in. 

[00:12:41] Emily Race-Newmark: Another piece I want to give a little grace to in this conversation, but in any of our conversations is the role of language. I think that we are all choosing from the language that we have available and accessible to us, and there is something really powerful and important about choice of words, and there's also something very divisive that can happen when someone says one thing we shut off We think that means that they are other, that they are part of this group. 

[00:13:08] Emily Race-Newmark: I see this more and more with the role of social media fracturing us in this way. I raise that because again as listeners, as observers in these conversations, we are working with the language that is being shared, and let's not just stop there, let's allow ourselves to question, to interrogate, to sit with, and to evolve language that we're using and that we're hearing.

[00:13:37] Emily Race-Newmark: Again, I'm recording this at a moment in time. I'm sure if we were to connect at another moment, I may have something very different to say, so a reminder that we also have the power to evolve and to change our minds and to see things newly.

[00:13:51] Emily Race-Newmark: So, thank you. Let's get started. 

[00:13:55] Yael Drier Shilo: First of all, Hamas is a terrorist organization and we believe that its actions hurt the Palestinian cause. We also don't believe Hamas is all Palestinians, that's not true. There are many Palestinian civilians and many Palestinians who do not support Hamas or do not support terror and they don't deserve to be treated as terrorists.

[00:14:16] Yael Drier Shilo: It is very important for us to separate between Hamas and the Palestinians, and that being two different things, and to speak out very clearly against the attacks that happened. They were vile. They were terrorist attacks. There's no justification for that. The context of that doesn't change the fact that they are completely wrong and really harmful for the struggle. 

[00:14:36] Yael Drier Shilo: I was surprised about how much that very simple thing is lost in the American public. I was shocked with all the, "One person terrorist is another person freedom fighter."

[00:14:45] Yael Drier Shilo: They're still terrorists and they also have treated the Palestinians in Gaza badly. It's not a democratic country. They're not living there freely. They're a very corrupt organization that has taken a lot of the humanitarian aid for themselves, making the suffrage where the Palestinian public suffers. They should not be portrayed as heroes of any kind or freedom fighters. There's not justify the means. Just because you support, the Palestinians let's say, it doesn't have to support everything any Palestinians have ever done.

[00:15:14] Yael Drier Shilo: But that's very simple. I think we've seen it in other places, but this sort of black and white conversation that is happening now in the States. I was shocked by how much this became so black and white. You're on one side, you support whatever that side is doing. And it's so hard to speak out and say, anything that complex and says like, "Okay, these actions are wrong, but the Palestinians still have a right to live in peace, and they still have a right for their life." I can still support that and say Hamas is wrong. That's not hard, but somehow that's lost. 

[00:15:44] Yael Drier Shilo: And then, Israel has a right to exist, but there's the actions done by the Israeli government that are wrong. These things are not contradictory, but somehow you have to choose either you justify everything Israel has ever done, or you don't support Israel's right to exist. There's no need for this kind of extreme that doesn't allow for any helpful communication.

[00:16:04] Yael Drier Shilo: I think also one of the most basic things that I didn't think I would have to say, but apparently I do, is that there are millions of Palestinians living here. There are millions of Jewish people living here. They're not going anywhere. Suggesting any sort of quote unquote "solution" that involves millions of people not being here anymore is supporting something that is violent, that is terrible, that will hurt millions of people and also very unrealistic.

[00:16:33] Yael Drier Shilo: So that's not a solution by any means.  I think that's the difference to people living here, both Israelis and Palestinians. We are very bothered by the question of what is realistically a solution that we can achieve. And once you start to do that, you will have to get off your moral high horse and make compromises with reality. But you will also be actually helping people here, improving their lives, because you will suggest things you can actually do and that can take us forward to make things better here. Not just now, but in the years to come. 

[00:17:06] Yael Drier Shilo: People are complex, the situation is complex. And with that we need to find solutions and compromises. I think once you start thinking like that, then you start having a more grounded perspective. 

[00:17:17] Emily Race-Newmark: I want to draw the parallel, if there can be one. In the United States, for example, there is a very violent history of how this country came to be. And there is still like a lot of the impacts of that currently happening. Depending on which political organization or like movement you're a part of, there's different ways of addressing the reparations or the healing around that. At the end of the day, in the same way, we wouldn't expect everyone who's here to just go back to where they came from.

[00:17:41] Emily Race-Newmark: That is not a solution. What's the way of living together? I think is really the question that we have to examine.

[00:17:47] Emily Race-Newmark: Another thing I've been observing is there's so much discrepancy in the history of how we got here. And so I'm curious with your organization, how much focus is spent on looking back versus looking forward and holding space for different perspectives around all of that. 

[00:18:00] Yael Drier Shilo: We're very future focused. History is important, but sometimes we can get lost in the details and in sort of academic theoretical debates that are not very helpful.

[00:18:11] Yael Drier Shilo: It's not something that we discuss or work a lot about, talking about the history. It doesn't mean that we're gonna forget about the past or that it's not important, but focusing on what drives us apart doesn't allow us to communicate with the public. I think is unhelpful and we are focused on achieving change more than anything. So we're definitely more future oriented and try to avoid points of conflict that are not helpful. 

[00:18:35] Emily Race-Newmark: If you're enjoying this conversation so far, there's more bonus content from Yael at our Patreon. 

[00:18:41] Emily Race-Newmark: Every contribution, no matter the size, helps to fund the production of this podcast. And as a thank you, you will receive access to bonus content such as Yael speaking to how Standing Together mobilized in the wake of October 7th, and what Standing Together's efforts look like on the ground in Gaza.

[00:18:58] Emily Race-Newmark: Thanks again for being a part of this community and supporting conversations like this one.

[00:19:03] Emily Race-Newmark: Now let's get back to Yael.

[00:19:06] Yael Drier Shilo: Ever since Hamas has risen to power in 2006, there were flare ups of military operation and bombings of a missile throwing and stuff like that, and then there will be a ceasefire and that will last for a year, two years, et cetera. And then that will happen again. It's a circle of violence.

[00:19:23] Throughout this time the Israeli left has called for peace negotiation. Something that would really allow real liberation, freedom, and not just a ceasefire where things stand still and the occupation continues. But there's been the right wing government believing in this idea of maintaining the conflict. As in, "We will maintain it if there are spill ups." They will do a small operation and then we'll continue with maintaining the situation as is. Which is something that we objected and we said, "This is not stable. This is not sustainable. It can't last. we need more. We need real peace negotiations to move forward."

[00:20:07] Yael Drier Shilo: Now, there's war going on, there are Israeli hostages that were taken into Gaza. And there's, of course, a lot of military activity within Gaza. And we're trying to say, "Right now we don't want to just have a negotiation for a ceasefire and then continue on staying in the situation as is. We want to move forward farther than that and to achieve real peace and real security for everyone. 

[00:20:31] Emily Race-Newmark: What are your thoughts as an organization in terms of how we would actually get there? As you said, in the practical day to day, what would that even look like? 

[00:20:38] Yael Drier Shilo: It's hard to answer that, because obviously as an Israeli. I don't want to say, "palestinians should put this and this in charge." That's not my place. But obviously it cannot be Hamas. It needs to be someone who is moderate and will be willing to negotiate for peace in the long term. It needs to be some solution that involves the West Bank.

[00:20:57] Yael Drier Shilo: I don't want to get into all of the details of how exactly this is going to be done. I'm not a military expert, but one of our steps, what we want to achieve now is to get an Israeli government that is more willing to do the steps necessary to build peace.

[00:21:11] Yael Drier Shilo: That's what we're hoping to see. 

[00:21:13] Yael Drier Shilo: Because what we have now is a government that tries to do the opposite, that has sustained from answering the question of what's going to happen next.

[00:21:20] Yael Drier Shilo: It's just, "We're going to dismantle Hamas." And refusing to answer, okay, then what will happen after that? Who will control Gaza? How will it be rebuilt? Because there's a lot of destruction. It's essential humanitarian crisis. But after that, also to have a functioning government that we can work with on peace negotiations is crucial. And we need a government that will allow that to happen. Because right now, we don't have a government that says, "We want peace." And if we'll have that, we'll be able to achieve so much more—even in the fight against Hamas because we will have more international cooperation. 

[00:21:55] Emily Race-Newmark: It's clear that part of this vision that you all hold is around peace. And I'm just reading from the website that it's specifically a future of peace and independence for Israelis and Palestinians. Full equality for all citizens and true social, economic, and environmental justice.

[00:22:10] Emily Race-Newmark: Is there anything else that you want to elaborate around in terms of what that looks like?

[00:22:14] Yael Drier Shilo: I think it's also important to say we want to be an organization that is for the majority of all people. And achieve the broad interests of Israeli society. We don't work just from a place of solidarity. Of me, being in solidarity with Palestinians because I'm this very moral person.

[00:22:34] Yael Drier Shilo: We don't believe that it's something that you can broaden enough and convince enough people of to achieve effective change. We want people to be connected to their own interests. And we believe that actually people will work from their interests, that would be the key for change. And we believe that Jewish Israelis, have the interest to live in peace, solidarity and with less racism and with equality, not just because of your morals. 

[00:23:00] Yael Drier Shilo: In this moment, we're back into this narrow thinking. But when we're not in this extreme situation, it's about broad organization, talking to the people, trying to organize with people in their life. 

[00:23:13] Yael Drier Shilo: I'm not a good example because I have been an activist since I was a teenager and I am this stereotypical activist kind of person. But a lot of people in the movement aren't, and that is something that we're very proud of. Getting people to understand that you need political change to better your life. You need to have an interest in politics. It's why we had this board fighting about minimum wage because we thought this is a subject we believe really help a lot of people if we'll succeed, but also that it's relevant for so many people.

[00:23:43] Yael Drier Shilo: And then having that in both Hebrew and Arabic. And having voices and this feeling of, "We're in this together." I think that was very strong. I think that's a good example of a politics in regular ordinary days. 

[00:23:56] Emily Race-Newmark: I acknowledge that we are speaking to probably a predominantly United States based audience, but there are some listeners from around the globe, what would be an action that you would recommend folks take in this moment? 

[00:24:08] Yael Drier Shilo: First thing, if you're American, make sure Donald Trump is not president again. That would be very very helpful for us.

[00:24:15] Yael Drier Shilo: I hear a lot of people going like, 'I don't care who will be president. I'm not going to vote for Biden again. I'm not saying he's perfect. I'm saying things can be worse. I know it doesn't always seem like that. But it can actually be worse. So you have the responsibility to make sure that it doesn't get worse.

[00:24:33] Yael Drier Shilo: Have responsible representatives committed for achieving peace in the region. I think as Americans, that is important for us. 

[00:24:42] Yael Drier Shilo: But also, generally, having this more complex understanding of the situation, less black and whites. And really, really try to avoid any sort of dehumanization of either side, which I think is happening in a scale that I haven't seen before when talking about this conflict. I think that's very, very important. Just remembering that there are people on both sides that have the right to live and to be free and to live in dignity.

[00:25:10] Emily Race-Newmark: Thank you so much for being in conversation with us and I will make sure we link all of the appropriate links that folks can find more about standing together online and support and donate in the ways that you asked.

[00:25:19] Emily Race-Newmark: Thank you so much, Yael. I really appreciate. 

[00:25:21] Yael Drier Shilo: Thank you. It was great talking to you. 

[00:25:23] Emily Race-Newmark: If you enjoy this conversation with Yael, please consider making a donation to Standing Together or following them on social media. We've linked their various profiles in our show notes along with the link to where you can donate. 

[00:25:36] Emily Race-Newmark: For more from Yael, you can check out our additional edits at the This is How We Care. Patreon page, patreon.com/thisishowwecare. 

[00:25:44] Emily Race-Newmark: Thank you for all the ways that you are supporting this podcast, whether it's through Patreon contributions, listening and leaving reviews, sharing episodes with the people in your life, or subscribing to our newsletter and Instagram to be a part of the conversation.

[00:25:59]Emily Race-Newmark: This episode was produced by me, Emily Race, co produced by Kimberly Anne, with audio by Andrew Salamone, and music by Eric Weisberg.