Full Transcript of this episode:

Emily Race  0:12  

Welcome to the Founding Mothers Podcast, where we're imagining new ways of living with one another and our planet. I'm your host, Emily Race.

Today's episode is with Amber O'Neal Johnston. Amber is an author, speaker, and worldschooling mama who blends life giving books in a culturally rich environment for her four children and other seeking to do the same. 

Amber O’Neal Johnston  0:34  

When children are left to be free, it's kind of like when people say “homeschoolers are weird.” And I'm like, “All children are weird, right? All people are weird.” But when you are forced to conform in order to not be bullied or to survive a system, then you start becoming more standardized. And so, what you often see when people are saying “homeschoolers are weird,” I'm like, “Thank you. What you're seeing is freedom.”

Emily Race  1:00  

She recommends we offer children opportunities to see themselves and others reflected in their lessons, especially throughout their books. And she's known for sharing literary mirrors and windows on heritagemom.com and heritage mom blog on Instagram. Amber is the author of “A Place to Belong”, a guide for families of all backgrounds to celebrate cultural heritage, diversity, and kinship, while embracing inclusivity in the home and beyond. 

Welcome, Amber, I'm so grateful for you to take the time to speak with us today on the Founding Mothers podcast. Thank you for being here.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  1:34  

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about it.

Emily Race  1:37  

I'd love for you to start and share with listeners a bit about who you are and the work that you're doing currently.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  1:41  

My name is Amber O'Neil Johnston and I live outside of Atlanta, Georgia with my husband Scott and our four kiddos. They will be, after birthday season, 7, 9, 11, and 13. We are a homeschooling / worldschooling family, and I've homeschooled them from the beginning. My work is done under the brand of “Heritage Mom” and I talk about all things related to homeschooling and home atmosphere and and all of that, but my specialty is related to really tethering our children to their home culture and ethnicity culture, but also the home atmosphere, the way their family does life. With the idea that it will bring people closer together, people who are similar and people who are different. I talk about celebrating diversity and kinship.

Emily Race  1:41  

Beautiful. Can you share a bit about the journey of how you got to this place and the work that you're doing with your kids?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  1:52  

Well, when we first started homeschooling, I had done so much research, and I saw that a lot of other families were doing some beautiful things in their homes. And so I kind of followed suit; I got the same book lists that they were using and did the same things that they were doing. And I did not have beautiful results.

Essentially, my oldest, through a whole long series of things, eventually shared with me one day that she felt like “people like us”, meaning black people, were not important because I had told her that we study important things and people in school and she informed me that we only study white people. And so for me, that was a huge pivotal moment. Because she was right, even though it was really painful. It was embarrassing. It was difficult for me to process, why I had been doing that or how we got there. Eventually, once I got through all my stuff, I decided to totally change that.

I took a lot of the same beautiful things that I had been doing, but I infused examples and lots and lots of opportunities for her to see people who looked like her reflected, and that aspect of her personhood within our schoolbooks and our lessons and resources and field trips, and all of the things that we started doing. And I saw this little withering flower come to life. It happened so quickly that it felt like a miracle. I couldn't believe that it would happen that way. So I started sharing about it online and telling other people what had happened. And that's how the brand first got started.

Emily Race  4:28  

I've heard this story before about your daughter and it brings up a few things for me, one, how are our students, our children, in this case, can be the teachers, and this like dynamic of “who's teaching who”. What you just shared around “this was embarrassing”, or the emotions that brought up for you, I'm sure it brought you on your own journey, in some ways.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  4:51  

In a lot of ways, because where I finally landed was, I had kept telling her “Oh, it's fine. We're all this same on the inside. And you don't worry about that. And you're beautiful the way you were made.” So I was asking this young child to basically show up confidently in this world, and I wasn't even doing it. So I was like, “Wow, she turned the mirror on me”.

I had to step away for a moment and gather my thoughts and see, “What am I willing to do? Where am I allowing my emotions and my heart and my mind to go in order to show up for this little girl?”

Emily Race  5:34  

I feel like there's so much about the parenthood journey in that. I'm also inspired by— because you're not in the four walls of a traditional school system— that you had the ability to ask yourself and challenge the curriculum, even though there was also this personal layer to it.

I also was struck by the fact that it was a curriculum itself that had such a big impact on her, not actually being in a school environment with predominantly white children or anything like that. That's fascinating; how powerful.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  6:07  

Yeah, that was part of the part that made it so difficult for me, because we often blame outside influences when our kids don't “turn out” the way that we're planning for them to, but the pain that was being caused with my child was originating from me and the decisions that I was making directly.

So I couldn't say, “Oh, goodness, these schools are,” you know, that was like, “Oh, my gosh, what am I doing?”

And the hope that comes out of that is that it took a decision and intentional turning around to completely change everything. And just as quickly as she responded to my ignorance, that's how quickly she responded to the newfound wisdom as well. So it's a place where you can go from despair to hope, literally overnight. I think there's a lot of power in that.

Emily Race  7:09  

That's beautifully said.

As far as your own background in schooling, you were not homeschooled. Is that correct?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  7:17  

No, I wasn't. Both of my parents were public school principals. Not only wasn’t I home schooled, education and public education in particular, was a critical aspect of my entire childhood. Both parents in the same school district that I attended schools in and all of their friends, all of my parents best friends and the community in which I grew up, was a community of public school educators. My sister and my grandfather were public school board, elected officials. So this was not a planned path for me.

Emily Race  7:52  

Wow, so many degrees of learning for everybody. What led you to be attracted to homeschooling and worldschooling?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  8:04  

It was my husband who really had the vision before me. I definitely had a vision of being a stay at home mom. But I didn't have this idea of homeschooling. I felt like that was something for people who wanted to separate, like the separatists, from society, in a lot of ways. And I know now that that wasn't correct, but I had seen a lot of examples of that. I didn't get it from nowhere.

I kind of joked around with him, “It's like you want us to join into a community of people who are often leaving to get away from people like us. Why would I want to go follow them?” And also dealing with the idea that the generations that came before us had fought so hard for the opportunity and right for our children to go to school. That was something that I really struggled hard with, like is that a slap in the face to the sacrifices that have been made on our behalf?

And ultimately, where I landed with that was the idea that I don't really think that they were fighting for us to be able to go to school, I think they were fighting for freedom. And I think the ultimate freedom is the right to choose. That's the highest form of freedom, right? Not just the right to be able to do what everyone else is doing, but the right to choose your own path.

And so once I was able to make peace with that, I could see where he was headed, and I was willing to follow.

Interestingly, what he presented to me and what I went along with in the beginning, was that we were going to homeschool in order to accelerate our daughter. We're like, “She's so brilliant. She's so smart.” You know, it's our firstborn, and she was a precocious little girl and and we thought, “We don't want her to have to wait — she's a late birthday— to be able to start school. We can homeschool her for a couple years and she can just like jump right in.”

And then once we started reading and researching and learning and being involved in this environment, in this community and watching our daughter at the time, thrive and grow, we continued to homeschool for the exact opposite reasons. Slowing down, savoring life, creating and building in margin in her days.

I think it's pretty cool. However you slide into whatever it is you're doing, you don't have to continue doing it for that reason, even though you may want to continue, for some completely different reason. And in my case, a completely opposite reason, because when you get more information, sometimes you change your mind. 

Emily Race  10:37  

That kind of jumps to that second iteration of how your approach to homeschooling your children shifted. Can you talk through that evolution? When when Heritage Mom was born?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  10:52  

Well, the first thing I did when she “shocked” me in the way that she did with what she said about what we were learning — it's so funny now, but I lacked confidence to go off script of what I thought was such a great curriculum. So during that summer, when we were supposed to be “off school”, we did what I call our “Black term”. And we dug into all things black, like books and literature, and music and poetry. We talked about what soul food was, and we went to see performances, and we did all these things. And I was like, “Okay, this is really fun.” I felt so comfortable. And I realized that I had manufactured this beautiful environment, but it was like plastic, because it wasn't me. I was the thing that was missing from our homeschool.

I had to do research, of course, to teach her black history and all this stuff. But a lot of that I didn't have to research. I'm like, “Girl, let me tell you about this.” And I had not been doing that, I was so reserved, “Now is school time, and we learn about the classics. And we read Emily Dickinson only”.

And so that was the first iteration. And when I saw how good that felt, and how authentic our home environment was becoming, and we were blurring the line between school and life and home and family, because I was able to show up authentically, and my kids were really responding to it, then I was like, “Okay, I see what is happening here and what we need”.

And then from there, I started integrating our voices into everything and weaving it in seamlessly. So there was no separation, there were no more Black terms or White terms, you know, such an artificial construct, it just became life and people. And that's what stuck. That's where we are now. And it's been a really beautiful journey.

Emily Race  12:53  

Oh my gosh, it sounds so beautiful. I love how organic it is, too.

I'm hearing a lot of unschooling in a sense, or unlearning, your own ways of associating with learning in school, as you're finding something that's really authentic and vibrant and comes to life and addresses all the intentions you had initially with with doing this.

I'd love to jump in to the vision piece. To pause for a moment and ground ourselves in the fact that there may be listeners who are parents, some who are not, there could be folks who are currently homeschooling or interested in that. And there may be some who are really attached to or used to that traditional schooling method. Given all of that, this is an opportunity for you to share what your vision would be for education and what that could look like.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  13:40  

When I speak, I speak to audiences that are home schoolers and are interested in homeschooling. But I also do teacher in service days for teachers and schools and have been having more consulting opportunities with schools and their curriculum and everything. So I am very passionate about education in general.

My vision would be that our children are taught in a way that is like a tapestry where they are hearing stories and seeing voices and learning about contributions from everybody. We're not talking about canceling anybody. We're talking about expansion, and bringing in more richness in a very natural way.

I spoke this weekend at a conference and I shared this story. There's an author, Ezra Jack Keats, he wrote these children's books, one of them's called “The Snowy Day”. He was white man and he wrote a series of books featuring this little black boy, Peter, and his family. It's normal, everyday, little children's stories. In this interview — it was long time ago, he's deceased — they said, “What made you write these books about these black families and normal everyday life?” And I think the interviewer was looking for this really important, wise answer. And he was just like, “Because they should have been there all along.” And I was like, “YES.”

That's my vision for our children's education, whether they're traditionally educated in school, or whether they're homeschooled, it's that they would be able to learn in a way that shows them how naturally diverse and inclusive life can be.

I think that as adults, this is new for us. We tend to over talk, we're like, “Now we're going to read you about this Latina poet”, and the kids are like, “Okay…” and I'm like, “Don't say that. Just read the poetry. And use it to get that into their hearts and minds. Now they're walking around reciting her poetry. You don't need to call it out as something new or novel, because that's new and novel to us. But to our children, success would be that they notice people's differences and they shrug, because they expected them to be there all along.

Emily Race  16:14  

Yeah, so interesting, because it's that next evolution of what diversity equity inclusion work really looks like, which is “This is just what it is, it's a natural tapestry”, as you put it. But when we are pointing out the difference, like now, “It's Black History Month, we're going to focus this month only on black stories”, then we're also highlighting how the dominant culture or the white culture is the thing that we're talking about the rest of the 11 months.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  16:46  

Yeah, I think that's kind of the idea. And I get it, when something's broken, you have to be really intentional and very obvious to fix it. And that's the mode we're in right now. We're fixing and patching and growing. But, you asked, what does success look like? What is my vision? And my ultimate vision would be that the patching and playing this game of Twister no longer has to exist because we've raised up a generation of children that are like, “Dude, what are you talking about, like, this is so normal?”

And I think we have an opportunity to get there. We have a beautiful composition in our country; my family travels a lot internationally, and in most of the places we go, we've never been someplace that looks like the United States. Instead of fighting against what it is that makes us so unique, we should embrace it, because our kids have this opportunity to be in brothers and sisters with people of different backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds, cultural backgrounds, and ability levels. All different types of things. I would love to see us embrace that rather than fight about it.

Emily Race  17:57  

Yeah. You and your family do incorporate travel; is that part of your vision in this ideal world for everybody? Or are there other ways that people could access this tapestry? 

Amber O’Neal Johnston  18:10  

I think that it's not realistic; the global travel is a gift. It's something that we've been able to do, but on a bunch of different reasons why it may not be feasible for everybody.

Eli Gerzon, he's the man who developed the term “worldschooling”, which we all use now talking about homeschooling overseas. But the interesting thing is, it's his word, he came up with it, and he said, it doesn't have to necessarily involve global travel at all, that it's a mindset of living in a community based mindset. Leaning into the world around you. The library. He even named the internet. Going to performances and reading books and meeting people and doing things and touching things and making things and just living in the desire to connect with others, constantly connecting and building these avenues of connection right in your own hometown.

And I find that to be invigorating, because even my family, we do travel globally, and that's really cool and interesting, but most of the time, we're here at home. And so, what are we doing while we're here at home that shows our children a vision for the type of life we want from them?

Emily Race  19:32  

In your ideal vision, is it that the traditional school system, as we have historically known it, would still exist? Would it completely take on a new form? I'm hearing a lot of experiential learning in what you're saying.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  19:48  

I definitely think a new form, right? It's almost like it needs to be blown up, because I think myself, I'm a product of this school system and I broke the code. I was a straight A, perfect attendance student K through 12. I went on to college and grad school on a full scholarship and came out and was in this fabulous career making all this money. It was exactly the path. It was like a picture perfect factory product. And I was absolutely miserable. And so what happened was, I came out of school and I started working and it's like, “Okay, eureka, you made it. You're making all this money now.” And I had no interests. I had no passions. I didn't know what I like to read. I didn't really want to read anything, because I've been forced to read so much adult stuff for so long. But I didn't know what am I, who am I, I don't know what I'm into. Because I've been memorizing and regurgitating for so long that I've lost the ability to think for myself.

For a long time I feel like I was in the tundra. It wasn't honestly until I started homeschooling my children, that I started this “second education”, and I had an awakening, where I was like, “You know what, I think I like poetry.” I didn't know that, you know what I mean? We couldn't read poetry in school, we didn't have time for that unless we were tearing it all apart, but just to read it for no other reason than just to enjoy it?

I'm doing all these things for my kids that I consider to be cultured, because I wanted them to have better than what I had. I'm going to the art museum, but then I'm gazing on the art too. I'm taking them to the symphony and to jazz concerts and doing all this stuff. And I'm listening to the music too. It wasn't for me, but I'm getting the bread crumbs off of what I was serving them. And I was like, “Okay, things have to be different.”

So yeah, I do think the system needs to be blown up. And we need to do something that allows children to excel across various areas. I've seen in the homeschooling world, some really, really gifted children whose giftedness does not show up in reading, writing, and math on paper. And so those kids flounder in school, and that's a shame. I mean, they're amazing.

I think there are areas — grades, that's all I cared about. I don't care about if I learned it, just “Did I get an A?”

So I don't give my kids grades; they've never received a grade and I get to see what happens when you remove dangling that steak in front of them.

Emily Race  22:31  

Yeah, something that is sticking with me is going back to what you said about your own experience with the educational system; how you weren't feeling passionate about anything or didn't know what that was for you, and I'm hearing in my head, “That's how was it designed!” Exactly like you said, these systems that we have been living within are working as designed. There's no surprise to me that there are so many adults who are not clear on what they're passionate about, or what they care about, but they're just working for corporate America or they're in that capitalist system, whatever it is, focusing on working and “putting your heads down”.

What would be possible if you're seeing the type of education that you're providing to your children on a mass scale? What would that create in those children now and then as adults? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  23:28  

Right now what I see — and our home is completely imperfect, a Nerf gun bullet might whiz by behind me at any moment, so it's not like we're here living this, “high-bred” life or whatever — but what I do know is that my children are free.

What I get to see as a result is they don't have notions of, for instance, things being for girls, or things being for boys. My boys sew on the sewing machine. One of my daughters loves chemistry. And they have a say in how they spend their time. I don't rank subjects for them. One of my daughters, loves working with her hands, it's like that's what she was made to do in this world. I am in awe. And so, I don't sit there and tell her “Well, if you don't absolutely love STEM, then you're going to be a loser.” You know what I mean? I don't know where she's going to go. And she does do her math. I'm not suggesting that our kids be raised in ignorance. She does her math, and she's fine with it. But that's not what makes her heart sing. And so she doesn't find value in that.

When children are left to be free, it's kind of like when people say “homeschoolers are weird.” And I'm like, “All children are weird, right? All people are weird.” But when you are forced to conform in order to not be bullied or to survive a system, then you start becoming more standardized. And so, what you often see when people are saying “homeschoolers are weird,” I'm like, “Thank you. What you're seeing is freedom.”

All kids would be weird. “I think that's what your kids would dress like too if they weren't going to be made fun of at school.”

I see this idea of people growing naturally to be who they were made to be, without the direction of “These are the most prestigious careers.” Just recently, I was telling someone that when I was in high school, I really wanted to take Home Ec classes, like the cooking classes, sewing and even some of the carpentry and drafting classes were really appealing to me. They were in a different wing of our school. And I remember the guidance counselor telling me I “couldn't take those classes, because those are for kids who weren't going to college. And I had to stay in this wing, which was college valid”. And I was like, “Okay”, because that's what she told me. But now I look back, and I'm like, “That's wack”. I had interests at that time. I can look back and say, “Wow, I was interested in learning something.” And I was told that “You learn those things, you're going to be headed off down a different path.”

And I look at my daughter in the kitchen, baking and cooking, and doing all that stuff, and how it compares to the chemistry that she loves mixing different ingredients to get something new. And I'm just like, “Wow, that was really short sighted.” What could I have done with that?

I know that's a really long answer. My short answer is allowing people to live freely.

Emily Race  26:31  

Yes, all of us, I believe, are weird, to some degree, and there are some adults who are fortunate enough and have the ability to find their weirdness at the later age and reconnect to that childlike self, but many people unfortunately, will die not ever reconnecting with that. I think that's one of the biggest tragedies, honestly.

So yes, I'm with you now imagining this world where children, and then those children grow into adults, who keep their weirdness and follow their passions, and they see how those dots connect. And there's not really the separation around, “Oh, if you take these steps and ace this test, then you are good. And if you don't, then you're bad.”

You use the word standardized, and I heard “Oh, standardized tests, that's a whole thing.”

Amber O’Neal Johnston  27:17  

That's the thing. In our state in Georgia, homeschool children have to take those tests every three years starting in third grade. So two of my kids were up for testing this year. One of my daughters, she was getting mad, to be honest, she was like, “This is so arbitrary.” It was asking her a question about science — I can't even remember what it was, but let's just say it was magnets— well, we studied a ton of science this year, but we didn't talk about magnets. We did talk about like anthropology, and we talked about genetic modification and all this different stuff that was really cool and interesting and very scientific. But she looked at me, and I was like, “Sorry, I didn't get the memo.”

I don't teach to the test. I don't actually know what's on there. And I don't care. I just told her, “Shrug it off, guess and shrug it off.” Because it is arbitrary. Right? It's arbitrary to try to measure a child's learning. I think it's easier with things like math and reading, but to measure science? It's a body of infinite work. And to say that a child is at x level or y level, because they don't know this or that tidbit — I think a better test, which is how I test my kids in my home, is rather than saying “Here are all my questions.” So I can kind of like, “Gotcha, you don't remember!” Instead, I say “Tell me all that you know about this. Tell me all that you know about organic foods. What is an organic food? Tell me about it. Tell me about our food systems in America or tell me all that you know about reconstruction. What happened when the Civil War ended and all the slaves are free? What happened between then and when World War One started?” Because I never learned about that period in school. So just tell me about it.

And we're sitting here and I'm listening to these kids, and I'm like, “Hey!” I don't give them grades, but in my mind, I'm like “A plus! You're able to discuss these really important things.”

Letting our children show us how much they do know, rather than trying to catch them with, “Oh, nope, you missed too many. That's a 76 for you”; instead of catching them on what they don't remember, I think is so much more powerful.

And that's how people connect right? If you and I were to go to tea, or to go out to dinner tonight, we would talk about all the things we know. We wouldn't test around for holes, like “You don't know this. Let me find what else you don't know.” (Laughing)

So yeah. Maybe it's a little pie in the sky. But I think that's where all the beginning of all great change happens. It's a lofty goal.

Emily Race  30:01  

So do I. And that's one reason for this podcast even existing. Even if it feels unrealistic or like that may not be possible in our lifetime, but if we can imagine it, then we can get closer to it. And we can also see where it is existing now; like you are a living embodiment of this happening currently in our world, and there's others out there who may be doing the same.

On that note, what does the socializing aspect of school look like for your kids? You mentioned bullying that can happen in a traditional school system, is that not a thing that they experienced at all? How does the socializing aspect take shape?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  30:37  

It's funny, because a lot of people wonder, “Homeschool kids aren't socialized”. I really am sure that there are some people who live in the woods out in some compound or something. But for the homeschoolers in real life that I know, our biggest issue is staying our behinds at home. There are so many opportunities, you can get up every day and socialize all day long. A lot of times we do that. And sometimes, it's being diligent to stay home and actually get some stuff done here that is the biggest issue.

I think that families and homeschoolers can be as social or as non-social as they choose. Just like kids who go to school, I know kids who go to school where they're told to be quiet all day and hush and get a detention if they're talking. And then they get on the bus and they go home. They're not engaging in rich community, either. So I think it really is about a choice that you make; do you want to get out there and make a life for you and your children? Or maybe you just want to stay home in your basement. And that's your choice.

So, socialization definitely has not been an issue for us, as we have kind of the opposite issue. And I think that relationships are critical, and making sure that our children have opportunities to be in a lot of different situations. Everybody can handle it differently, but for me, when my children are young, I just don't need them to practice being mistreated.

People are like, “Well, they won't know what it's like to be bullied.” You know, that's really great. They don't know what it's like to be in an abusive marriage either. I'm happy with that. Thanks.

I think it's really easy to figure out what it feels like to feel bad. I don't think that we need to give them a practice ground for that. When they're really young, I put them in situations and controlling environments where they are figuring out who they are and their identities. And yes, I would like it to be completely free of judgment and bullying and harm to their personhood. But as they get older, I don't intentionally seek for them to be harmed, but they spend more and more time outside of my “mama bird wings”; they have interests, my kids are into musical theater and drama. They play sports and play instruments, and they have friends and they go to their friend's houses and things happen.

Because they live in this world, and we aren't separatists, there are times where they have bad experiences, and I don't wish for it, but I'm like, it's a part of real life. In fact, they can have it within the homeschooling community. Sometimes it happens right under my nose. I think the difference is I'm like, “Hey, yo, you've gotta backup off my kid.” (Laughing)

Maybe it's not gonna go on for very long, but I'm like, “Hey, girl, your kids over there, you gotta get your kid.” I think it's normal.

I read this article once where the the author said, when people are talking about kids needing to develop grit, there's a healthy way to develop grit and unhealthy way. Life itself will bring about opportunities for children to develop grit and you go with it, you teach them, you grow with them through it, but creating false environments where your kids have negative interactions and experiences in the name of them developing grit, that's like saying, “Well, it's a cold world out there. I want you to start sleeping without a blanket here in the house.” And she's like, “That's dumb.” And I that really resonated with me. I'm like, “Yeah, that's dumb.”

Emily Race  34:21  

I can almost imagine that the people who are saying that are really, in many ways attached to what their own experience was, and think that's just the way it is. We find ways of reframing experiences that happened to us, like, “Okay, it benefited me in the end.”

But I love what you're saying that life will provide lessons and then we can you know, as parents or homeschooling teachers — do you call yourself a teacher or just a parent?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  34:52  

I'm just “Mama” but if I want to get a teacher discount somewhere… (Laughing)

Emily Race  34:57  

So as the mama bear, you can ensure that you're protecting your children as much as possible from those experiences.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  35:05  

For sure. And I protect other people's children from my kids. Sometimes my kids are the ones that are not being right. And it's my job to pull them up and correct them. The whole “mean girl” thing or clicking over here and I see this kid getting left out. It's not always like me protecting my kids from other things. Sometimes I'm protecting other people's kids from my children's immaturity and lack of growth.

Emily Race  35:34  

One thing that I struggle with is — personally, homeschooling and world schooling, and all these concepts feel like such a no brainer, a great idea. But I know that I have the ability to do that, I can take the time to do that. I don't have to work a second job to pull in that income right now.

What would you say to folks who are interested in the concepts that you're bringing to mind, but unfortunately they have to keep their kids in a public school system or something like that?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  36:07  

And I think that's why we all have a responsibility to pour into our public schools. That's my conviction. And I know a lot of home schoolers where their primary purpose is separating. They're separating from the public schools, and don't feel bad because they're also separating from my family, too. And we're fellow homeschoolers. So those people, they're lost. Hopefully, they can be found someday.

But for the rest of us, I think that we have a responsibility; just because you're homeschooling your kid, you cannot say “peace” to the local public school. We go to events that are public schools, and we volunteer, and a lot of it is the conversation that happens in our home; we're very supportive, we speak very positively. Every state in the United States is different, but in our state, homeschoolers don't get any money for homeschooling. And I love that personally, yes, I'm a taxpayer, and I want my tax dollars to go to my local schools, and my local schools are healthy then my community that I live in is healthy. I don't feel like I can abdicate my role as a community member just because I chose to educate my children this way.

Everybody doesn't feel that way. But I think that the school system is broken. In a lot of ways, it's very broken. But also, school is a safe haven for a lot of children; that is their happy place. That's where they are loved on, that's where they receive their meals, and they're poured into and their relationships. We can't ignore that, and just say, “Well, forget it, everybody who could homeschool can and then just light a fire to the rest of it.”

I realize that it's a privilege to homeschool, a huge privilege. It's a privilege financially, but it's also a privilege to live in a country where it's legal. I mean, there's so many different layers to it. And I don't really feel like we have the right to only think of our own. We have to look at this as a whole.

Your kids, even if you homeschool, they're not going to just work with only homeschool people, they're not going to marry only other homeschoolers, they're not going to only live in neighborhoods with other homeschoolers, no, they're going to be a part of a vibrant, diverse community. And we want that community to be healthy. So we have to pour into other people's kids and care just as much as we do about our own.

Emily Race  38:32  

I love that, too. Because you're once again, modeling for your children “This is what it looks like to pour into a community or to be a part of a community” versus “we are over here and are better than or separate from”, as you're describing.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  38:44  

Yeah, and the thing is, you can make all the plans you want, but you don't know what life is going to be bring you. I'm a homeschooler today, and I would like to remain one. But who knows, I've had other homeschooling friends whose husbands have died, who have had devastating health diagnoses that have required their kids to go back to school; everything could change tomorrow. So I don't want to sit here and dump on a system that I may need myself one day.

Emily Race  39:13  

Right. I can see this beautiful future vision that you're helping to illustrate for us. And I can also see the vision of what homeschooling, worldschooling is, but then it's that in between space that I am also curious about.

As taxpayers, as parents, what can we do to help revive our educational system?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  39:41  

I think there are — probably not in really small towns, although I have heard about some unique things there too — but I live outside of a large metropolitan city and the educational choices here are mind blowing. We often think: public school, private school, homeschool. But there are a there are a lot of other options. And if there isn't in your community, there's even the opportunity for you to start something.

We have these cottage schools, we have self directed learning centers, online and in person. There are all these creative ways that people are coming together. People say, “Okay, money.”

I see a lot of these places are offering students sliding scale, pay what you can, they're getting grants; there are a lot of people that are really wanting to see a revolution within education, and they're willing to fund it. We got a $10,000 grant this year for our homeschool group, the group that I run, because they're like, “Yes, shake things up. Let's see what you can do here. How can you best support families so that they can remain outside of the traditional school system?”

It's not this dichotomy, school or home; there are places that are in between, there are home-ish environments that are school, but it's not the parent teaching. And there are school-ish things that feel like home. And that is where I see the future.

Emily Race  41:11  

This analogy might not work for everyone, but I just gave birth two months ago, and I gave birth at home. But there's also a birth center, and the birth center acts as that “home-ish” environment for people who don't want to give birth in the hospital, but don't want to do it at home. I’m hearing that in what you're saying. 

Amber O’Neal Johnston  41:27  

It’s giving people flexibility, again, I just keep saying freedom. It's like, my mantra in my life, whenever I think about if I'm succeeding, or if my kids are succeeding, I think about, “How free are we?”

I think that those hybrid options, and we even have hybrid schools here, where kids go to school two or three days a week, depending on their age, and they’re home the other days. There's just so many different things.

I think funding some of these things, but bringing them as ideas under the public domain, as ideas or options for what public education could look like, is crucial.

In the meantime, treating our teachers well. I feel like a lot of our teachers in our public school system, they get crapped on all the time. Treating our teachers well, because they're with our children all day. Who should we be giving honor to in society, and instead, they're on the end of the bottom of the dumping pile in so many cases.

So there are some things we can do immediately as a society before we can even get to restructuring schools, one would be starting to respect the people that teach our nation's children.

Emily Race  42:45  

I'm loving that you're bringing up some actions here. Is there an inquiry for people to sit with, who are listening to this conversation as a first step, before taking action?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  42:57  

That's important, right? Because actionless people, what is the point of that? Especially if you're complaining. I see all the stuff online and on TV and just, wow, calling names and complaining, and I'm just sitting there saying, “Just shut up. What are you doing? How are you trying to help even on a very small basis? Or are you trolling people online and complaining and name calling? You see a problem, there are a million of them, right? Just grab one of those problems and start doing something meaningful.”

Emily Race  43:34  

To get clear there. If someone isn't clear on where to start with taking an action, is there a question we can leave them with to help them examine where to start?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  43:44  

Where do you see the biggest problem? And try to plug a hole there.

At the very least, can you start going to the activities and events at your local public schools? Can ask the coaches, the teachers, “What do you need? How can I help here?” Showing up for them making things better?

Those are the first lines of defense, something you could start doing on Monday.

Then longer range is looking at, what are some unique ways that we can address some of the ills within the educational system?

People have often asked me, “Well, why don't you put your kids in it and help address it there?” And I'm like, “I'm not a martyr.” No, I have no interest. If I feel like I can do something different and unique with my kids, that's great. But I also am not walking away. I am doing the work day in and day out.

But my kids are growing up right now. So a lot of the work that I'm doing isn't going to be seen; we're going to be out a generation or so by some of these changes and my parenting days will be behind me by then.

Emily Race  45:01  

I keep seeing how all this is being modeled for your children and in your homeschooling group. Children who are at this age they’re like sponges, they're taking in so much. Someday, they will be, if they're not already, that bridge to help create something new.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  45:21  

That's fully my expectation. And I write about that, I speak about that, I even tell my children, “We’re bridge builders.”

I want them to absorb that into their identity. No one gave you the right to just sit here. You got work to do. And I want them to feel like “We are Johnston's and the Johnston's are bridge builders.”

We talk about that, we use that type of language in the house. And I think it's really important. Everybody's path is going to be different, someone else may use some other great and grand identity that they're pouring into their children. I don't feel like we all have to be foot soldiers following in command. You don't have to do it the way that I'm doing it.

But all I'm saying is do something.

Emily Race  46:04  

Find what that thing is for you.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  46:08  

And do it. Teach it to your children pass it down.

Emily Race  46:11  

Yeah, exactly. How can people either stay in contact with you, work with you, collaborate with you?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  46:18  

They can find me hanging out at Heritagemom.com. I'm kind of old, so I'm still about that blog life. I'm on Instagram, though, heritagemomblog, and Facebook.

I just wrote a book. It's called “A Place to Belong, celebrating diversity and kinship in the home and beyond.” I't is a big, thick, meaty book full of a lot of what we're talking about and more.

I speak at conferences around the nation; they can find my speaking schedule on my website, if they want to interact in person.

But that's usually what I'm doing, the rest of the time I'm here being mama at my house.

Emily Race  46:58  

Amazing. I am so curious to hear a little bit about this book, because I am seeing the beautiful cover behind you.

I'm sure that that was quite a thing to birth into the world within itself. Is there anything you want to share about the book?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  47:10  

It is basically part manifesto, part memoir, and part guide. There's a lot of practical information and ideas that people can choose whether they would like to implement in their homes. I also do a lot of storytelling, I'm a huge believer in the power of storytelling and do a lot of storytelling about my own personal experiences and life.

The part about the manifesto is laying out a vision for what we can do with our children. It's mostly focused on our homes. But the last section of the book talks about life outside the four walls. We talk about travel there and being an active and vibrant community member, and what does that look like?

The book takes you all the way from looking inside yourself as a parent, to all the aspects and facets of your home, the books in your home, the media and television, the conversations you have with your kids, so on and so forth. And then it goes out into looking outside the walls and what the vision that we have for our children.

Emily Race  48:17  

That's so powerful, because it really does all start within the home in so many senses. 

Amber O’Neal Johnston  48:21  

Yeah. 

Emily Race  48:22  

Regardless of whether you homeschool or not.

Amber O’Neal Johnston  48:24  

Oh, yeah. And it's not a homeschooling book. That's an important thing for me to point out.

I've had to correct even my homeschooling friends, I'm like, “I love you. But it wasn't written just for you.” It's an ode to childhood and the family, and however that shows up in your life.

Emily Race  48:41  

Oh, amazing. Well, I'm gonna grab a copy for myself, and I hope listeners do the same.

Very lastly, is there any way that we as listeners could support you?

Amber O’Neal Johnston  48:52  

Getting the book and also leaving a review.

It's so funny, because I'm like, “Oh, these people are buying these books!” And I'm seeing the sales. And I'm like, “Yes, yes, yes.” And then I go look at the reviews. So taking the time to actually review. And that's not just for me, but that's for any author, especially someone that you value their work and want to support it. Leaving a review is free and something meaningful you can do.

Those are the biggest ways that I feel supported.

Emily Race  49:21  

Amazing. Well, congratulations on publishing this, by the way. 

Amber O’Neal Johnston  49:24  

Thank you. 

Emily Race  49:25  

And I'm excited to read it.

Thank you again for being here, and all the ways that you're modeling what could be possible in your own family and in the world. 

Amber O’Neal Johnston  49:32  

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

Emily Race 49:35

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Founding Mothers Podcast. This podcast is produced and hosted by me Emily Race, and edited by Eric Weisberg. If you want to support the show, please leave us a rating or share this episode with the important people in your life. We'd also love to hear from you if you or someone you know would be a great guest to share about their vision for the world. You can email emily@founding-mothers.com or visit www.founding-mothers.com/podcast