Full Transcript:

[00:00:00] Emily Race: Welcome to the Founding Mothers Podcast, where we're imagining new ways of living with one another and our planet. I'm your host, Emily Race. Today we'll be in conversation with Grace Anderson. Grace, she/her, is a network weaver strategist and dreamer working at the intersection of race, healing and the environment. She's committed to building the capacity of People of Color in the environmental space by moving resources towards their dreams and by creating structural programming to support their growth.

[00:00:43] Grace Anderson: I think sometimes dreaming gets passed off as something that has to be aloof and abstract and like an escape from reality. I always think about dreaming as my feet are firmly planted on the ground, and I am taking into account the reality that we live in, but also allowing myself space, taking space to think of what else could exist.

[00:01:11] Emily Race: With over a decade of experience in the outdoor and environmental sector, Grace has worked in several different capacities to uplift and center Black, Indigenous and People of Color. At People of the Global Majority in the Outdoors, Nature, and Environment (PGM ONE), Grace co-directed the largest gathering of Black, Indigenous, and People of Color who work in connection with the land. Her time in this role significantly deepened her commitment to building and sustaining the networks, dreams, and joy of Black, Indigenous, and People of Color. 

I'm so excited, Grace, to have you here with me today and to dream together a little bit. Thank you.

[00:01:48] Grace Anderson: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be in conversation with you too.

[00:01:54] Emily Race:  Can you start by sharing who you are in this moment, who you are in the world and in what you're doing at this point in your life?

[00:02:02] Grace Anderson: I love how you ask in this moment. It feels like it changed, not too often, not the core things, but things do change.

Right now I am a Black woman, always a Black queer woman living in Oakland, California, on unceded Ohlone territory. 32, soon to be 33. I am a big dreamer right now, really in love with food and connecting with people around food, especially Black folks in food. I'm in love with bicycles and books and expanding my perspective.

I'm really excited about strategic planning and visioning with organizations and people, and strategic dreaming, still working on the language around that, but really excited to be in conversation and in community with people who want to take time and space to try something different because what we've been doing largely is not working. Those are some of the identities and thoughts that are up for me today.

[00:02:57] Emily Race: Beautiful. I echo that. Strategic dreaming. I love that. I would love to spend time with you there today. Before we jump into the dreaming piece, is there anything around your story of how you arrived to where you are in this moment that you'd like to share?

[00:03:11] Grace Anderson: Yeah, without going as a rigid bio, I think the most important things to share about where I am is the family structure I grew up in.

I'm one of five, the second youngest of five kids. I grew up with my two parents, so a household of seven, and I think something that was ingrained in me pretty young and I carry with me in my work now, is the need to take care of each other, both those who we are related to by blood and then those who we choose to have in our lives, and the understanding that we need to share resources.

As a family of seven growing up with limited resources, we were always sharing and figuring it out and reconfiguring and looking for resources outside of financial ones. I've been holding that with me for a long time, but recently I've put name to it.

That's really a part of who I am and where I am today.

[00:04:01] Emily Race: Beautiful. This thread of a theme, I guess you could say, around care is one that shows up often in this podcast. So I just love how you began with the family, painting this picture for us around what it feels like. Maybe it was a full house. 

When we connected prior to this podcast, one thing that you shared with me is how much you do enjoy being in this dreaming space. Like you said at the start, we live in a time where dreaming almost feels necessary for survival. So I would love to spend as much time as possible there with you now. I would love to start very broadly. What is your dream for the world?

[00:04:43] Grace Anderson: Yeah, small question to start with. Well, I first want to say I think sometimes dreaming gets passed off as something that has to be aloof and abstract and like an escape from reality. I always think about dreaming as my feet are firmly planted on the ground, and I am taking into account the reality that we live in, but also allowing myself space, taking space to think of what else could exist. I want to root myself in that because sometimes I do it to myself as I'm dreaming, like, Why are you spending time on this? It's necessary, and I'm doing it from a place of survival, and a desire to live in a better world, but definitely from a place deeply rooted in reality. I think being so deeply rooted in reality forces me to dream more because I'm like, Oh, this is not it. Watching the world around us burn and resources continue to be hoarded.

It's like this can't be it, so I want to start with that.

And so I think the world that I'm dreaming of and want to be in is one that folks have basic needs met. It's a world where people are housed. People are able to live without worry. It's a world where food is abundant and shared, and easily accessible and nourishing.

It's a world where folks have access to spaces in the natural world and can grow food, can recreate on the land, can understand their relationship to it. It's a world of a lot of sounds, a lot of different languages being spoken and celebrated. It's a lot of smells of different foods being cooked, and a lot of deep commitment to community and care.

It's a world where care is centered, and mutualism and an understanding that we need each other to survive is at the center of how we operate, and it's an embodied world. We wouldn't be where we are today if everyone was actually in their bodies.

One of the most pervasive parts of white supremacy and capitalism is disembodiment. I don't think people could act and be in ways that are exploitative and malicious if they were actually in their bodies and really connected to who they are and connected to the earth. I don't think those two things could coexist.

And so it's also a world where folks are able to truly tap into who they are and have a deep sense of belonging. There's many things, I'll stop there. Because we could go on and on.

[00:07:03] Emily Race: Well we can go on and on, and thanks for pausing just so we can really soak in everything you just shared because there's a lot of, juicy, for lack of a better word, details around what's possible. And you began with what feels like such a basic, fundamental thing around everyone having their needs met, and when I hear that personally, my body cringes, it contracts. It's like, why is that a dream and why is that not the reality?

So I don't know if there's anything you wanted to expand on that. And maybe even what your perspective is around why we're not there today.

[00:07:31] Grace Anderson: Yeah, I think back to what I was saying about disembodiment, I think we have lifted up resource hoarding and power as such a marker of success in this world that people's needs aren't being met because people are busy trying to get the most and take, take, take. I think a lot about philanthropy for example. A lot of foundations exist and a lot of philanthropists exist, and yes, they're giving away a very small portion of their wealth, but what if they didn't acquire that much? What if we operate in a way that it wasn't the case that a select few have the most and, and redistribute it, but instead that they just take less and exploit less so that everyone has needs met? So I think we're there because markers of success look like how much can you get and how much can you hoard and how much can you make?

I think if that weren't the case, we would be thinking about more evenly distributing resources and not just financial resources, but land, the forced removal of Indigenous folks from their land and the forced labor of Black folks on the land. I got a little tangled in my thought there.

[00:08:40] Emily Race:  What I was hearing is a huge focus on this idea of the success marker, being taking as much as you can, or at least through a lens of white supremacy or colonization. I would like to challenge maybe that that's not what's true for everybody, or that's not a mode of operating for everyone on this earth, right?

Because I'm assuming Indigenous practices are not about hoarding as much as you can, and there's something around that to maybe look towards or listen to as we start imagining a different way of relating.

[00:09:11] Grace Anderson: I think definitely there are people and practices that have existed long before, the United States and white supremacy, but I think the dominant narrative and those holding power heavily influence, disproportionately influence, those practices. If you think about forced removal, the fact that that can happen, is just a sign of who has the most power in this country and in this world. I'm talking in generalizations, but I'm also talking in this way because who holds power and resources in this world? If we're thinking about financial capital,  and land, it's been significantly hoarded by white folks .

I would love to dive into examples of where that isn't happening, and uplift those, but also be really clear and honest about what is currently.

[00:09:59] Emily Race: I'm just hearing back what you said at the start, as we dream to be rooted in this reality and both as an embodied practice, with our feet on the earth, our bodies, connected into our bodies, but also present to what is, and not trying to sugarcoat it or glass pass it.

Thank you for all of that. You said something interesting. I do want to pull that thread a bit more around if we are living in a dominant narrative that to succeed is to have as much acquired as much as possible, hold on to it and hoard it, then what is an alternative vision? You started to say a bit about it, right? We would perhaps not get to a place of accumulating so much to begin with. But do you want to share anything else around that piece of the vision?

[00:10:41] Grace Anderson: It would also look like needs being met, and those needs being housing, access to clean air, access to clean water, food. We would live in a world where you didn't have to work to survive and to live on this planet. So a living wage, like in an actual living wage, not a poverty wage, but wages that allowed you to take care of yourself, to take time off.

I think work being at the center of our culture is by design. Spending 40 plus hours a week working limits how much time people have to think about a different reality. People are just overworked and exhausted and it'd be cool to think about what else could exist, but when you're having to figure out childcare, having to figure out how to keep a roof over your head.

What I see for the future also just leaves space for people to exist in the world. I know of people and have seen so many examples of people working tirelessly their whole lives and never going to that place or taking that vacation or having time to garden or having time to spend with their children.

So a new reality leaves a lot of space for people just to be, and to experience and to be in their own lives and not dedicate their lives to work and work that has been created by someone else to manufacture and create things.

In the future world, folks are also working in joyous ways. People are really able to spend time making art or whatever other forms of art or expression that they think will influence the world or bring about change– and not even bring about change. Things that are just joyous and fun and inspire people to giggle. Removing the emphasis on production and creation would also exist in that future world.

[00:12:20] Emily Race: Yes. This whole point around how we've centered work and then what you're sharing just now, it's like you're right, the design of this has had us almost not have any extra bandwidth to dream, to be in a pleasurable state unless we've been able to be privileged enough or set things up in such a way where we’re working in alignment with our values and in a way that does fill up our own cups.

Have you always had a relationship with your work in which you found that balance and that ability to take breaks and pauses, and if not, how have you gotten to a place of being able to do that?

[00:13:00] Grace Anderson: Yeah, good question. It's hard to answer that and because I've always worked in ways that I thought were common, but now as I get a little older and more perspective, I realize they aren't. I started my career as a park ranger, and doing seasonal work and working in outdoor education. So I'd work for three months, get money from whatever trips I led, go on another trip to spend it all and then come back and do it again. And so for most of my twenties, it felt like perpetual summertime of okay, we work, we do these trips, and then we come back and work again.

And so I've always had a bit of an uncommon, flexible schedule in that way. Then after I was in outdoor ed for about six or seven years, I started working in organizations. I had full time roles within various conservation and environmental organizations. And so for a short bit of time I had more of a rigid schedule, more of a nine to five, but that didn't last very long, based on who I am. Now I'm consulting full time, so I have a lot of space to design my schedule in a way that I want to. I feel like I'm still learning, even though I know I have full control over how I schedule my work.

I'm still like, Oh, it should be like this because this is when everyone else is working here. This is how people think I should be working. But I'm slowly starting to reject that.

For example, I make Mondays only for Black folks. A lot of folks reach out to me looking for connections or support, or want to introduce me to other Black folks who are working in the outdoor environmental space. And historically in the roles that I've had, I've always been inundated with requests and pressure to meet with white organizations and white folks to explain various things. And so one way that I'm countering that is that I only talk to Black folks on Mondays. Or, if anyone wants to just dream about things, I have the whole day free for it, and that's been huge for me.

It's been so big to start my week off in that way. And It's one way and I'm starting to design the type of schedule I want and need in order to be creative and thoughtful.

I think another part of where I am today is because I love spending time outside, love being outside, love backpacking and climbing. I love bikes and I just have stopped doing it, so for the most part, I'm going to start taking Fridays off just to give myself an extra day to do trips. This Friday, I'll be leaving to do a backpacking trip. Last Friday I went on a 60 mile bike ride with a friend that I've been wanting to do.

 I'm now in a place where I have autonomy over my schedule and can figure out different flexes in order to live the life that I want to and design my life around work and not the other way around. My life is the center, work has to fit into it, and not the other way around.

As I'm doing that, I'm like, Oh, all people should have access to these things. Being able to schedule and work in a way that you can live your life, and that could be time, changing your hours so that you can pick up your children or go on a walk before work or go on a bike ride.

The things that I have access to now, I'm trying to be very open about because I think sometimes in order to dream about things you might need some points of references or some glimmers of spots in the universe to look towards. Oh, it is possible, this person's doing it and these are some ways I can incorporate it into my work. Does that answer your question?

[00:16:11] Emily Race: It totally does. And you also just underlined why I asked that question. So I really appreciate you lifting the curtain behind what your cadence looks like and also the evolution of that because I think in my own life I've seen this same question come up around as over the years I've started to reprioritize time in nature or time for creativity over only being on the computer producing something for someone else. That took some time to get to that place. And I also question what allowed me to get to that place? And then I think about people who are in different situations that whether it's they are employed by a company and they don't have that autonomy over their schedule, like you just said. From that strategic lens, how might we get to this place of having this be more of a widely normalized way of operating existing?

[00:16:58] Grace Anderson: Yeah. It's tricky because we still live under this rigid and oppressive capitalist society. And that will dictate how the majority of people have to work.

 I think about things like even healthcare being largely attached to having a full-time job and working in certain ways so I feel like some of those big pieces need to be upended, but interim strategies around that include blocking time out on your calendar, and not necessarily having an explanation for it.

I was working at this organization where we had seven meetings a day, and I'm like, “When am I supposed to think about anything that was said or synthesize any of the information?” So I started to block time on my calendar and wouldn't move it. I think being really clear of this is the time that I need to process.

We're not given enough time to process in the typical work fashion. Meetings, meetings, meetings, information dump, information dump. So I think things like that.

Identifying ways to connect with yourself during the work day. I was telling you right before this, I was outside and I meant to go on a walk today, but the way that I woke up just didn't allow for that. And so taking that time to just be outside, and get some sun on my face and do some writing outside is another strategy. And I think changing up where we work as much as possible. I actually started this podcast when I was sitting at the table, but now I'm laying on the floor. That's the way that I move around and find different ways of working. I've been trying recently to write less on the computer and do it in a notebook, which adds another step of getting it typed up, but it allows me a bit more breathing room around work. Yeah, those are some ways that I'm thinking of strategically to shift around how I work that are accessible to some people's strategies to do it for themselves and their own work life.

[00:18:46] Emily Race: Yeah. I'm really feeling in everything you just shared. Just start with where you are. You know best. What are the potential options available to you? And even if that looks like just blocking off that time or rearranging a thing here or there. And then I'm also thinking of as you were sharing all of this, of the folks who actually do, they're gatekeepers or they have more access to dictate in a way the cadence for their team or their organizations.

And so if any of you are listening to this, maybe there's another way that you can actually create that space for others so that they maybe feel like they have a bit more permission. To also block off their time because at the end of the day, power dynamics are real. You know, so we want to acknowledge that piece.

[00:19:28] Grace Anderson: I would also like to call out the difference in surveillance for hourly workers and retail workers to salaried workers. I'm not naive that me being able to block out time is something that I have access to as someone who's previously salaried and making a good bit of money, and that isn't usually afforded to folks who are working hourly, lower wage roles. Yeah, I just want to call that out.

[00:19:50] Emily Race: Yep. Thank you. And, that word, surveillance. It's chilling when you hear it, but it is, it's true. It's like there is this level of surveillance, even if you have a salary job.

I've found that when we share our calendars with one another, it's like, Oh, you really can see into my life whether I want you to or not. There are pros and cons of all of that. But just to bring it back to the why and it might be going back to something you already shared, but just to really underline why is it important to take time and space to connect with nature, to connect with what brings us joy or is filling up our own cup, so to speak.

[00:20:21] Grace Anderson: Yeah, it's because, at the end of the day, it may sound dark, but again, trying to come from a place of reality, at the end of the day, most people aren't going to remember these mundane tasks that we're doing.

Did I ever answer that email? Did I finish writing that strategy document? I think at the end of the day, we are living, breathing people who have needs and I often feel like the work gets in the way of the living and just being and existing in this world and enjoying life.

And so I think as much as possible, taking that in and finding opportunities to connect with the natural world and with the things we love is actually what makes us most creative and thoughtful and expansive. Every time I go outside or spend time outside, for me, that's just a processing thing. And I don't think everyone needs to spend time outside. If that's not what you want to do, then don't do it. But for me, that has such a big processing space for me. And it's also where I feel most comfortable, being alone, which is really important to me.

The more time we spend connecting with ourselves and the things that we love, the more able we are to show up for our own selves and for our community and the work that we love.

Because coming from a place of exhaustion or obligation or necessity isn't always the most liberatory and creative spaces. Really just getting into who you are and what you bring through connecting to those joyful places is how we really bring about deep lasting change.

[00:21:46] Emily Race: Beautiful. I want to bring it back to the embodiment piece of this vision and this dream, and the fact that you shifted to a reclined position as we have this interview just as a testament to what it could look like to really listen to your body and honor what their needs are. Can you share more around your vision for embodiment and even maybe talk listeners through how we could become embodied in this moment?

[00:22:10] Grace Anderson: Yeah, for me this is a recent discovery. After 11 or so years of being in really chronic pain, I finally had a doctor who listened to me and I was like, Yeah, I've been telling them all for years I've had an issue and no one was listening to me, and I finally found the doctor earlier this year who listened to me and I had a surgery that completely changed my life. I'm not in chronic pain anymore. I knew I was listening to my body this whole time and it was telling me that something was wrong. And I finally for this instance needed outside help.

But it had me thinking a lot about what would be possible if I slowed down enough, in order just to feel, what would I have a chance to observe?

I'm thinking about the times that I've been still enough outside to see a hummingbird. Last week on my bike ride, we were biking through this nature preserve and we saw this falcon really close, like 10 feet away from us and we just stood there and observed it.

And I think about the things that I'm able to observe when I slow down, and that surgery has me thinking of it a lot now. I think there's just so much to take in that blocking out time just to process and be, that could be like five minutes, it can be 10 minutes. It doesn't have to look like meditation.

It could be writing. It could be laying on the floor like a starfish, which I do pretty often, with your eyes closed. Just an opportunity to synthesize and take it in, and to notice what's coming up in your body, any aches, any pains, any spots of joy.

I was working with a career coach last year and something that she had me do was just like, Oh, every time you do a work task that you like, or makes you excited or that you get through really fast because you're so excited to do it, make a note of that.

And I started to do that in other aspects of my life. I'm like, Okay, when I do this with my friends, or if I do this by myself, it makes me so happy. Just taking the time to observe that, to mark it, so that I remember.

I say all of that to say processing time is so important. I've created a new role for myself of not making decisions during a call. I love to say yes a lot, but even if I know it's a yes, I'm like, Oh, I will get back to you. Just give me some time because it takes me a while to process information.

And I love to double book myself or to lowball myself, in terms of compensation. So I'm like, Oh, if I just take a beat, it's not going to hurt anything. So I think really, really finding time and strategies to give yourself a bit of time to process and just feel, and to your own body is really important.

[00:24:32] Emily Race: There's definitely a quote out there around moving at the speed of nature or something. There's another quote around moving at the speed of trust. I'm just thinking about pace at the moment as you share all of this. So thank you again for the tangible example.

I'm now wanting to bring it back to that bigger vision because I'm trying to imagine, what would this world look like if we were all more deeply in relationship with our bodies and our processing spaces? What do you see that looking like in terms of our relationships with one another, the environment? 

[00:25:04] Grace Anderson: Yeah, I think it would be so much more intentional and thoughtful and less competitive. During the racial uprisings in 2020, I felt the pull to go out and be in the streets and be at the protests.

But I am socially anxious. I go to bed at nine o'clock and so I was getting so anxious about it, even before being out, just anxious about going out, because I was like, Oh, this isn't how I want to be in this movement. I think specifically as a Black person, giving myself a lot of choice around that, and for other Black folks, giving yourself a lot of choices about how you want to show up, and I think taking time to slow down also gives you an opportunity to identify what you're really good at. I don't like being in the front of the room. I don't like speaking in front of people.

I don't like large crowds. And so I think 2020 was the first time I was like, Oh, what am I good at? What do I really like? I love some paperwork and not a lot of people like filling out paperwork. And I got really clear on that and I love building things, but I don't need to lead them. And I love strategy, but I don't need to lead it.

If we were all able to spend time getting clear and slowing down, we can be more clear on who we are and how we want to show up in the world and not necessarily take on roles that have been assigned to us or what people project onto us.

The Building Movement Project has this really beautiful web of the different roles that people play in movements. And I think if we took some time to really tap into this is what we're good at, what we're interested in, we could be working more aligned and less competitive. And our movements would be so much more robust because we have folks working at several different angles to solve issues, and to provide care. It would be more powerful and expansive, if we had time to slash gave ourselves time to really feel into what's up for us.

[00:26:49] Emily Race: Yeah. And I would add to that from my own experience too, that it would probably be more sustainable, because in these justice spaces too, there's a lot of burnout that can happen.

[00:27:00] Grace Anderson: Right? A lot of burnout. That's a really good point.

It is more sustainable. I think I've been seeing more folks moving towards co-director models or even three co-director models. Specifically in the nonprofit sector that expectation that you wear a bunch of hats and you do a bunch of things and it's like, why don't we just focus on what people are good at, and then act accordingly. You're is absolutely right though it is more sustainable.

[00:27:24] Emily Race: Beautiful. You were just sharing about giving yourself space and freedom around how you wanted to show up back in 2020, around those racial uprisings in the protests and from a more broad level dreaming space, you talk about in your bio how you work at the intersections of race healing and the environment. So I'm curious what your dreams are for Black, Indigenous People of Color or communities.

[00:27:49] Grace Anderson: Yeah. I will say at this point in time, my dreams are of land for specifically Black and Indigenous people, for Indigenous folks to return of land that has been stolen, which is all of it, so that's a vision right now. And for Black folks, a space to call our own and a space where we can retreat and feel safe that is operated by Black people and for Black people where Black people are prioritized and celebrated.

I have dreams and we will make this into reality, where money and resources are moved towards Black and Indigenous people, unapologetically and abundantly.

I know we aren't given the same opportunities to try, maybe fail, often succeed with resources, So I'm dreaming and demanding and asking folks with resources to move them and move them abundantly without expectation, without deliverables. I think often white folks are given opportunities to try and experiment, and thinking about all the money that goes into some of these startup ideas. But do we actually need that? If the same resources were allocated towards Black and Indigenous people working in environmental spaces to bring about change that actually is saving lives and saving our earth, it would be so powerful. So yeah, dreaming of land and resource redistribution, abundantly and unapologetically to Black and Indigenous people.

[00:29:20] Emily Race: It loops back to that idea of hoarding resources. One of the potential responses in the white psychology to that dream is , Well, what about me? What if there's not enough, like this scarcity or holding on, grasping onto? You don't have to respond to that, but I'm curious if you do have a response to that fear, more or less.

[00:29:39] Grace Anderson: Yeah. I don't think I will respond, there's so many thoughts on that. Yeah. Thank you.

[00:29:45] Emily Race: Of course. So, the other piece of your work, you're touching on it in some aspects around giving land back and connecting with nature and the earth. I'm curious what your dreams are for the environment.

[00:29:58] Grace Anderson: Yeah, very much related to giving land back and moving resources towards Black and Indigenous people to thrive that will lead to… returning is interesting because I think so much damage has been done that I don't think it's a return to balance, but a balance, on the earth again, where we just take what we need and we're in relationship with the land and not exploiting it. I mentioned several times, I must be excited about it. I'm going backpacking this week and I was telling someone about it and they're like, Are you worried about the fires, the flood, the drought?

And I was like, Oh my gosh. Right? There are so many things impacting our earth right now. I think it's also an environment that isn't scorched and thirsty and holding more than it can carry. Yeah, those are my two main dreams for it, getting back into right relationship and stop exploiting it, and it's livable for everyone.

[00:30:48] Emily Race: Where might we begin? With that, again, back to some strategy, where might we begin with getting into right relationship?

[00:30:56] Grace Anderson: It’s a combination of things, that we've talked about, like getting back into our bodies. I think it will result in us not having such an extractive view of the world and the earth. Returning land to Indigenous people, who were always stewarding this land in a way that could hold us, moving resources. A lot of the wealth built in this country was built on slave trade, and on the land that was stolen. And so I think drastic wealth redistribution, not 5% of however much money has been made, but significant redistribution of land and wealth, back to communities where it was stolen and extracted from.

Yeah. And I really like stopping and listening and taking in and to count everything that's happening within our bodies and around us are starting points.

[00:31:43] Emily Race: If I were to tune into my own body with this vision around returning that land back to Indigenous peoples, it feels like something settles in my body, like it can rest a little bit. This anxiety starts to dissipate and I don't know, maybe that's just the experience of something returning home, to where it's meant to be.

And I also think about, because we've been highlighting basically the role that money plays in, capitalism plays in, all of this in upholding certain systems that are not sustainable, that don't allow resources to be distributed.

It's a big question. Maybe you don't have an answer for it, but I am wondering what you see as possible around money and economies in general. Is it capitalism itself that needs to be completely redone or how do you approach, in this visioning space, the idea of economy and money systems?

[00:32:33] Grace Anderson: Yeah. I don't have a well thought answer about what it is, necessarily, but I do know that the way we've been operating, where the land and people are exploited to create and produce, it's just not sustainable. I think any system that eliminates that, and promotes evenly distributing wealth and resources is one that I'm into.

[00:32:56] Emily Race: It's like sometimes there's areas that feel like we don't have the name for what the new thing would be, but I love how you're illustrating bits and pieces of what it could be. And one hope is that anyone listening to this could build on that in their own mind, in their own dreaming space and, and also connect dots with others who are dreaming similarly.

[00:33:18] Grace Anderson: And I think that's a big aspect of dreaming. Knowing what it is you want. I think we feel that, as humans already, you don't have to be able to name it, but you can know what it looks like, feels like, tastes like. I think that's enough.I've seen people really get caught up and I do this myself.

I get caught up on having to put a name to it, put a title to it, or a theory to it. But we can also just start from what we feel and know and see. Starting from there. And it might be very big and expansive to start with, but we'll get there as we really develop a practice around dreaming. It'll start to narrow down, but I don't want anyone to be deterred by not having a name for it yet. Write down what it feels like, what it looks like, what it smells like, and you'll get closer.

[00:33:56] Emily Race: Embodied with all of our senses. You shared something with me when we had connected previously around a writing retreat space.

I just wanted to connect back to something you shared around spaces for Black folks to just be, and so maybe that is or is not connected, but I'm just curious, do you have other examples? To your point around what it feels like, sounds like, tastes like, other examples that you've experienced around some of these dreams you have for communities of color or any of the dreams you shared?

[00:34:31] Grace Anderson: I was sharing about a writing retreat I went to in Alaska that wasn't specifically for folks of color, but was predominantly People of Color and it's called Story Knife. And it was just such an intentional space.

It was two weeks of writing and folks there, we made our own breakfast and then lunch was brought to our door every day and dinner was made for us. And it was really just, Oh, just come here and write, we will take care of everything else. And that's how I imagine spaces that I want to create. Feeling like you just have to be here. We'll feed you, we'll make sure you have what you need in order just to rest and dream and to write or whatever other creative practices you have. And it also is super culturally appropriate. We're making food that you love and the food that you know, you'll smell the foods that you grew up with as you're doing your creative practice or you'll see things that remind you that you belong and that you're welcome here.

The spaces that I imagine tap into all those senses and those senses communicate a sense of belonging. You can smell that you belong, you can taste that you belong, you can see that you belong, you can touch and feel that you belong here. They're intensely sensory spaces that communicate belonging.

I've been wanting to do a lot more around design and food, I've been crafting my apartment, especially. I moved into this apartment in the uprising, so I was like, Oh, I need to fortify myself when I leave the house. So everywhere I look in the house seeing a Black person or book or magazine, I feel so rooted in this space, and strong in my Blackness and I want to create more spaces like that for people. When you walk into this space, no one has to tell you you belong, but you'll know you belong based on how it's been designed and curated for you.

Those are the spaces that I am seeking to create.

[00:36:16] Emily Race: Thank you so much for that offering and really illustrating what belonging could look like. I feel like it's sometimes this idea of we want belonging, we want diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, and, I think to just really paint that picture, it feels like it's so simple, you know?

[00:36:36] Grace Anderson: Yeah. And I wouldn't say it's simple, and I think it's important to point out who's creating the spaces.

A lot of organizations and people want to create spaces where folks of color feel welcomed and they're not People of Color, or they're like People of Color creating for Black folks. I think it's really important just to move resources towards people who know it, instead of always being the one to do it, because that's when it's not simple, and it's very nuanced and it's deep knowledge. I think more and more I'd like to see organizations be like, “Oh, actually we can't do this because we don't know how. “ And, moving resources behind someone who does know how to do it, because it's so big and when it's done poorly, it's obvious and it causes harm.

It's a big one though. I'm excited to do more around that and put them into practice.

[00:37:19] Emily Race: Well, with that, I'd love to transition to hear any areas that you would like folks to collaborate with you or reach out, support the work that you're doing and the dreams that you have.

[00:37:29] Grace Anderson: Thank you for that. I'm really, really interested in design, and that looks like a few things. I think it's event curation, but I also think it's physically designing spaces that celebrate and highlight Blackness and restfulness. I'm thinking about all the places I have to lounge in my apartment, just to lay on the floor, so I'm really interested in that. Really interested in event curation for Black people. And I'm also really excited to collaborate on building residencies and fellowships, and opportunities for really intentional, well thought out ways for folks to be engaged in particular spaces.

I'm thinking about the writing retreat that I was a part of, if folks have access to land, or spaces, , where we could design retreats and fellowships for folks of color with the emphasis on Black people, I’m super interested in collaborating on that. And then, yeah, always excited to collaborate with other Black folks and think about how we could push each other to dream bigger and think bigger, also to be with each other and feel joy. I think those are the main things.

[00:38:33] Emily Race: Beautiful. Well, I personally look forward to seeing some of these visions, these dreams come manifest through you, and also beyond you as an individual, how this inspires others to carry some of these dreams into their own lives. Anything else you'd like to share with our listeners before we sign off?

[00:38:52] Grace Anderson: I encourage everyone to find a practice that makes them feel more in their body, whether that's simple movements or running or, writing or laying in bed just a little second longer and listening to your favorite song before you get out of bed and start your day.

I really encourage folks to find ways to do that and to not be dismissive of themselves and others when we talk about dreaming, because I think it's often coming from a place of really knowing reality, and wanting to do something different.

[00:39:22] Emily Race: Beautiful. Oh, I love that. I love how accessible that feels. I really appreciate you and the time that you've given all of us today in sharing a bit of yourself with us and the dreams that you have. And I feel a very vibrant world, a very thriving world existing out of these seeds. So thank you again.

[00:39:47] Grace Anderson: Thank you Emily. I really appreciate you inviting me and your questions and connecting some dots and asking really thoughtful questions that push me to think bigger and deeper. It's been really wonderful to talk to you.

[00:40:04] Emily Race: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Founding Mother's Podcast.

This podcast is produced and hosted by me, Emily Race, and edited by Eric Weisberg. If you want to support the show, please leave us a rating or share this episode with the important people in your life. We'd also love to hear from you. If you or someone you know who would be a great guest to share about their vision for the world, you could email emily@founding-mothers.com or visit www.founding-mothers.com.