Full Transcript of this episode:

Emily Race  0:12  

Welcome to the Founding Mothers podcast, where we are exploring new ways of living with one another and our planet. I'm your host, Emily Race. On today's episode, we'll be talking with Shakira Miracle, the Executive Director of the Santa Barbara County Food Action Network. 

Shakira Miracle  0:30  

99% of the produce that is grown in Santa Barbara County— and we’re prolific in ag— is shipped out. More than 95% of the produce that is consumed in Santa Barbara County is shipped in. What's up with that? 

Emily Race  0:49  

Shakira is a human-centered systems designer and strategic thinker with 20 years of experience serving the philanthropic government base and business sectors in North America and China. Her career has included roles in operations, facilitation, fundraising, advocacy, and she has sat on boards of for-profit and nonprofit organizations. Prior to the Santa Barbara County Food Action Network, Shakira coordinated a poverty reduction initiative, with the goal of sustainable change by facilitating the collective action of stakeholders in innovative experimentation. Shakira holds a bachelor's degree in Political Science from the University of British Columbia, and a master's degree in business administration, with an emphasis in nonprofit administration from Hope International University. Now based in Santa Barbara, California, Shakira tries to hang on tight as she navigates effective food system resilience building centered in trust. 

Welcome, Shakira, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I'm so excited to have you with us.

Shakira Miracle  2:06  

It is a pleasure. Anytime I can talk to mamas, I'm in my zone.

Emily Race  2:10  

We were just having a conversation around what it means to be a mother, so I'm sure that will weave into the topic today.

First and foremost, I wanted to start by setting the groundwork. What is the Santa Barbara County Food Action Network?

Shakira Miracle  2:26  

The Santa Barbara County Food Action Network is a coalition, consortium, of individuals and organizations working together across sectors, cultures and communities to collectively build a more resilient regional food system.

Another way to describe it is the network connects, we align. We activate food system changemakers or actors to develop a robust local food economy, a healthy and just community and a well stewarded resilient foodshed.

Emily Race  3:03  

Amazing. There's a lot going on within this one network. I want to break apart some of the things that you were just sharing into more detail, but first, how did this network even begin? What was the origin story?

Shakira Miracle  3:18  

We have to go back 10 years ago, to 2011. A professor of UCSD University of California, Santa Barbara, Environmental Studies, Dr. David Cleveland — although his focus is on more the macro, the global food system and the environmental impacts in both directions, he was curious about his own community, and wanted to explore what is happening in our own county and the communities within it that really paint the picture of the broader systemic issues.

They completed research and wrote a paper that essentially said the following, and this is going to blow your mind —and this was 10 years ago: 99% of the produce that is grown in Santa Barbara County — and we're prolific in ag— is shipped out. More than 95% of the produce that is consumed in Santa Barbara County is shipped in. What's up with that?

Emily Race  4:30  

Crazy.

Shakira Miracle  4:31  

It is. So the “why” behind that became a greater challenge. From 2011 and the subsequent years 2012, 2013, communities within the county started having conversations. They started getting together, people of all backgrounds and profession and interest, and they started to ask that question, “Why?” and “What are the consequences, intended and unintended, of a system like that?”

They realized, we have to do something. But in order to do something, you really have to have a roadmap, if you will. Over the course of two years, 2015- 2016, 200 volunteers from every walk of life, every sector you can imagine, came together to inform and publish the Santa Barbara County Food Action Plan.

The Food Action Plan is essentially comprised of 16 goals, that if activated simultaneously, would build a more resilient food system for Santa Barbara County.

Emily Race  5:47  

Can we just first of all pause there. You just shared so many crazy facts. I'm sure this is bringing up the question of, how did we actually get to this place? What is broken within this system where there's this exporting and importing issue?

It sounds like the ways that the food Action Network are focusing to come up with the solution is through this roadmap approach, and through connecting different communities. Is there anything else that's really working to help?

Shakira Miracle  6:24  

Absolutely, yeah. It's one thing to have a roadmap, it's another to actually navigate it.

After 2016, a number of organizations or primarily nonprofit in the philanthropic communities —which tend to be in the US the scrappy frontliners who do the experimentation and do the hard work on the ground, where a lot of the real learning takes place — what was realized, as they started activating one or more of those food Action Plan goals, those core issues that if addressed, would build more resiliency, they realized that there were two secret ingredients to success. And this is anywhere around the world. Something that is called in many circles, collective impact.

What is collective impact? Number one, they realized that there needed to be a core entity that could provide coordination across sectors across individuals.

I always say, if you eat, you're a food system actor. So each and every one of us with every decision that we make in terms of what we eat, how much we pay for it, and where we buy, it impacts this system that has been built over time. So coordination is key to make sure that all voices are held or space for all voices are held.

And then we need accountability. That, Emily, is another conversation for another podcast, is accountability, period, in this country, in the systems that we operate within and that are actually constructed. Let's do that some other times.

Ultimately, between those two, that ongoing coordination so that folks can do the work. But that upstream core issue or issues are still targeted by in being informed by all these folks, that accountability, so balls aren't dropped, and so that all voices are informing, especially those who are actually in the community who know what their needs are, are informing it.

And then an entity that leverages resources. What do we already have? Let's not reinvent the wheel. What opportunities could we activate, on? And so it's more grassroots. Each and every one of us can make real change. We as the network, don't do the work. We don't set the agenda. We hold the space, we assure equity, and we think always about the needs on the ground immediately, and how we can learn and iterate so that we can focus collectively on the upstream core issues that are needed to be addressed to fix these issues.

Emily Race  9:28  

I'm feeling so much gratitude that this network exists and that kind of community coalition is happening. I'm also curious to break apart those different players in the food system, and what that food system actually looks like.

Shakira Miracle  9:46  

That's an excellent question. I'm going to repeat this again. If you eat, you are a food system actor. Everyone from the food producer to the consumer are, can, and do inform the food system. Let's break it down even further from that. We're looking at our people who grow our food, or catch or, growing for harvesting as well meat and plant, and then of course catching for fisher folks. Then you're looking at processing, packaging or distribution, all the end-to-end supply chain issues — which, in the current state, and then the beginning of the pandemic, we can have a whole other conversation about that sometime— you're looking at the folks that serve and touch food in a myriad of ways: social services, emergency feeding, education, nutrition, health care, policy —policy is king, my friends— policymakers, policy regulators, businesses, entrepreneurs — and don't forget food producers are entrepreneurs, they are business people.

If we were to do an after school special, we would have all of those folks lined up. Now let's dig a little deeper. How about indigenous folks? How about other people of color that not only are part of our communities, they literally feed us, they literally put that food on our table, the vast majority of those folks are the ones doing the hard work to get the food from the field to our plates. And so those stories are also included.

I want to say also that when it comes to the focus of our work, we're really focused on that upstream core issue in our food system. I think that's going to be the game changer in doing hard work and doing hard things, and making great impact is having those who are most impacted by the food system to be informing how we change it.

Emily Race  12:19  

If we could just replicate that sentence and every aspect of our society, I think we would see a very different set of solutions being built. I'm curious around the Food Action Network's relationship with indigenous communities, the Chumash community here in Santa Barbara. What does that look like in terms of creating change and impact?

Shakira Miracle  12:44  

What it looks like is fundamentally flipping the table. What do I mean by that? Indigenous communities. Within bands of indigenous folks. there are individual tribes that speak individual languages and have different food systems of their own, and individual cultures. Rather than they those communities being on the periphery, they're at the center.

What we are learning in global food systems is that it's actually the indigenous people who, by and large, are the people that are stewarding what's left of our great natural resources. They are on the front lines, they are holding the space for protection and for proper stewardship. And so what we're doing at the network is listening. We're not telling, we're not educating, we're listening very intentionally. They know what they're talking about.

One of the areas of work that we focus on around that coordination is the convening of cross sector working groups. We're leaning into indigenous and BIPOC, in general. I identify as a white cisgender female, so I really need to get out of the way. And part of that work is holding the space, and then indigenous people filling that space in order to teach the rest of us how to build food sovereignty within communities. The impact is the preservation of culture, language, and then ultimately, our ecosystems, our ability to feed ourselves, it goes on on and on. And guess what's at the core of it? Mamas know — community.

Emily Race  15:04  

Food sovereignty is probably another podcast topic in itself, but if you want to define or explain what that looks like, that'd be helpful.

Shakira Miracle  15:18  

Sovereignty itself is when you define and lead and determine your own fate. Food sovereignty is just that — you in your community, determine how you want to feed your community, how your community wants to be fed, what that looks like, what types of food are grown, how food is harvested, shared and how it's processed. Who was included in the hands in the ground?

The best way to describe food sovereignty to me is an image that we have on an on the website of an individual at a community garden, Somos Semillas. It’s in the community of Santa Barbara, and the hands are literally in the dirt. That's what we have to get back to, food sovereignty is getting back to place-based, community-based bottom up, the community actually informs policy, what is grown, how it's distributed, and how it impacts our communities.

Emily Race  16:34  

Very clear, beautifully said. I’m craving to hear more of the vision. Vision is really important, because without that, we're not really clear on where we're going and how we can collectively focus our efforts into this one general area.

I'd love to hear what vision the Food Action Network has for the world.

Shakira Miracle  17:06  

This is where I get emotional. Because what communities are doing together is really what food networks across the United States, other countries, communities around the world, are striving for.

Let's begin with just a very simple improvement in the balance of the global food system and global feeding, and community based localization, or the re-localization of regional community-based place based systems. That would be an excellent start.

Within that vision, what is possible is more than we can imagine, in the time that we have together, so I'll narrow it a bit. I love to use the example of Chef Jose Andreas and World Central Kitchen. Why? Because this is a gentleman who is a chef from Spain. He is a humble person who loves his mother. He talks about her extensively, she taught him so much of what he knows. And yet, this is a chef-restauranteur who goes into communities around the world in times of natural disaster, extreme emergency, and gets what needs to be done to get nutritional prepared meals into bellies. At the same time, what they're doing is learning in each of these communities, what the gaps are, what the greatest needs are, and then communicating with policymakers at a local state or provincial, national global scale. He's talking to large scale corporations and bringing them into the conversation not just on a “give”, but a “tell”, “what do you know about supply chain distribution? What do you know about consumer habits and trends? Let's bring all of this information together.”

What we're doing at the county level is just that. We are bringing people who are focused on emergency feeding. We are bringing voices that are oftentimes, ironically, completely left out. The farmer, the rancher, the fisherfolk, the food artisan, right? All of these folks are at the table. Because ultimately, they really know best.

To take you 30,000 feet up even further than the current vision; a very wise farmer in our county told me once, "Shakira, food systems are the foundation of society, you have to feed your people." With that comes enough water to do it, sunlight, nutrients for the soil, right? Anything above that foundation, is civilized society, moving towards further and further and further civilization.

Many people think, “Santa Barbara County, what problem do they have?” That's the problem, and the stigma of extreme wealth. Because the greater the wealth disparity, the broader the curtain that covers the great need that is below it. And so, what we're doing here is getting as many voices to the table and listening, actively listening. Because we have to adapt folks. We're no longer in a world where what worked before will work again, except in that the core practices of land and food stewardship. Anything beyond that, we're in a whole new world, we're in the depths of climate change impacts, et cetera. So if we can bring all of these voices together, find that common shared need and value, align our goals, and collectively work towards achieving those, that is a global vision for food systems. We can iterate that anywhere, and everybody can do something about it.

Emily Race  22:00  

I'm hearing that a lot of it boils down to this communication piece, and cross community communication.

Let's focus on the local level right now. What is coming from some of this listening? I'd like to imagine it as if it was already here, what would it look like if now, we are operating in the way we'd like to with our food system?

Shakira Miracle  22:27  

Trust. It really begins and ends there. What we're hearing in communities is we need to trust the people who put the food on our plate. They know how to grow it, they know the resources they need. We need to trust when they say.

And by the way, in the state of California, the vast majority of farms are small, mid-tier. So many people, what they hear of our global mechanized food system, they think of large lettuce or almonds growing at the very bottom of California, and Mid-Central, or avocados and strawberries on the Central Coast, and on and on and on. But it's actually the small and mid-tier farmers who are doing a lot of the lift, and their voices aren't heard.

So trust building is essential. As a network, we're willing to be completely vulnerable in this work. If we can allow ourselves to be vulnerable, then the naysayers or the rhetoric of fear goes by the wayside, because those things don't lead to collective action.

Another thing we're hearing is, “We're too busy doing the work. We can't do your work for you anymore. You got to do that work yourself. So we'll grow or harvest or ship or process or distribute or sell the food to you. But you have got to get educated, you have got to understand what's happening in your community and take individual action.” And believe you me, the almighty dollar and your voice are two of the most powerful tools that any individual has. We just forget that because there's so much noise.

Another thing we're hearing from community members is the over the 40, 50, 60 years of the mechanization of food systems so that we can feed as many people as cheaply as possible, we lack infrastructure. We are hearing from communities around our county and beyond — we partner with surrounding counties, statewide organizations, networks across the country, organizations nationwide, this work is community first, collectively led — what we're hearing is we need policy change, and investment in regional infrastructure, because whether it's the production, whether it's grain cleaning, cleaning and milling, we can't have our farmers, ranchers, fisherfolk, driving hundreds of miles each way, just for step one in the process.

Global mechanized food systems have created very few of the food harvesting processing sites, and even fewer distribution sites. That's some real work that we can do locally that folks are saying, we need now.

Emily Race  26:19  

As someone who's engaging in the food system, enjoying food, eating food, purchasing food, using my dollar, what would it look like for there to be a shift? I'm putting it the reality of going to the grocery store, for example, and I may not know what I don't know, but would I see a visible difference when I go to shop for my food in more like a localized food system, assuming that that's what you're aiming to get to?

Shakira Miracle  26:49  

More of a balance, at the very least. Let's dive a little deeper into that question. What I'm hearing from you is, what tangible actions can I take? And what does that translate into? 

Emily Race  27:06  

Yes. 

Shakira Miracle  27:08  

What I tell people all the time, is, number one, do try to shop locally for your food, when you can. What does locally mean? That is subject to interpretation, based on what's accessible to you. Whether it's grown within your state, your region, your town, do a little more examination. When you go to the grocery store, or a roadside stand, or a farmers market: where did that food come from, and when you can afford it, whatever that looks like, to try to shop more locally. That translates into a whole heap of impact. Where those dollars go, the market reacts. If you're increasingly shopping locally, believe me, systems will adapt.

Second act that you can do, when you're going into that grocery store, making a decision about what food you're going to buy, do a little homework to get to know your farmer. Are their farmers in your community or outline community, or state or beyond? That act alone will start to trigger all sorts of thinking and questions inside your mind of “How did the food get to me? What impact do I make to that person's life if I buy the food that they grew, or they caught, they harvested, they raised?”

And then the big one, if you're unable to afford or access more locally grown food, or if you struggle to find a farmer or rancher or a fisherman, in the case of a coastline community, asked the ultimate empowering question. “Why?” Then, if you guys want to join me, then we make really big substantive change, because you ask the “why” to your local representative. Whether that's your State Assemblyman, whether that's your federal representative or Senator. That starts changing policy, because you are their constituent. They have to listen to you. They are in their positions because they were voted into those positions. We forget the power that we have of our dollar and our voice.

Emily Race  30:01  

I know that there's some policy change work that you all are doing currently. On that policy front, is there anything you just want to speak to, in terms of what that looks like and where we're hoping to go?

Shakira Miracle  30:12  

Absolutely. To stay really broad brush — because this is any community, this is not just Santa Barbara County, this is across the country, right, or the world — start locally.

One whole pillar of our work is advocacy. What that looks like is collectively listening to learn and identify, “What policies are barriers? What policies that are in the regulatory side, gaps, or hindrances, how are they hurting our local food systems?”

Your local county ordinances and how they're regulated are huge. Right now, in Santa Barbara County alone, I think folks are often surprised that when you look at ag ordinances, for example, it's actually not allowed that you once you produce compost that you share it from farm to farm. It's actually not commonly known that farms are actually not supposed to be hosting events, even if it benefits them. It's a health regulation, which makes sense, but need some updating. State level budgets, how those dollars are put into your public education system. Where's our nutritionists in our public education system? Where are the intersection of the health care of our communities, those who teach nutrition and build curriculum in our public schools?

And then from there, the interplay of nutrition, education, health. We had that in America, and we need to bring it back.

And then at the federal level, there are all sorts of large scale trends, that federal policy can move us as a collective body into, ultimately, to bring it back to each and every one of us. It's important to understand that policy actually dictates what we eat, what it costs, and how it gets to us, and who gets it to us. Who grows it, who ships it, who puts it on our plates, and why.

Emily Race  32:55  

You actually skipped right ahead to the question I had for you around, what's the invitation for our listeners that they could take away from this episode? What would be a tangible next step for them to take, whether that's an inquiry or actual action?

You've covered a couple of things, everything from questioning where your food sources are coming from? If you can't get anything locally, then ask why, reach out to your Senators, your representatives.

Anything else? I am listening to you both from the lens of someone who lives in Santa Barbara county, and also thinking of someone who maybe is in the middle of America or a different region where they're not accessing the same variety of agriculture, or where seasonally it looks different.

Shakira Miracle  33:49  

Great question. One of the reasons I think sometimes people’s eyes will glaze over when I talk about food systems, and they find out where I'm coming from — again, assumptions. Please know that I'm originally from Western Kentucky, born and raised, lived in multiple countries, including places like China and Canada. The biggest question is going back to the very beginning of our conversation, that discovery that 99% of the produce that was grown was shipped out and 95 consumed was shipped in.

If you live in Oklahoma, ask yourself this — of the cattle that's raised in Oklahoma, how many of you are eating Oklahoma raised cattle? If you live in Yuma, Arizona, how many of you are eating Yuma-grown watermelon, cantaloupe, even your romaine or or your Iceberg lettuce? If you are in New York City, and you live in central Queens, where is your family getting the ingredients to make your holiday meal? Is it packaged and processed with ingredients that you can't even read? Are you educated in high English and you're still like, “What does this say?” All of us can relate to that.

Ask why you can't access that food. It's not because some bad guy behind the curtain is trying to make us all fail. It's because over the last 50, 60 years, it took this long for our food system to feed as many possible people as possible, as cheaply as possible. And let's add in as many things to it as possible to stretch the dollar even more, not for the consumer, but for the profitability of said subsections of our food system economy.

If you can access that cow and have it on your your plate in Oklahoma, something is working, at least the option to do so. And I do want to say we're constantly myth busting around here, I get people saying all the time, “Who is this bougie person talking about going to your farmers market and spending $5 for a tomato”. If more people bought that tomato, the price would go down, demand would go up more tomatoes would be grown. Believe you me, those local farmers, they want to grow more tomatoes, but they have to have the cash upfront, so they can invest in the seeds and the nutrients and the staffing to till and harvest and distribute. So that's a misnomer.

Another myth that it's more expensive if you're eating in season. Let's say you're in Minnesota, and throughout winter, you can't grow, right. But traditionally, what we did was we preserved, so part of that nutrition education is getting back into learning how to stretch the nutritious food that we have throughout the year. And that's really important as well to getting to know your farmer, get to know your food again. Get to know it, enjoy it. All these different flavors. Food is an experience. Next to sleeping, that's what we do most most of the time is eat. Am I right? 

Emily Race  38:05  

Oh, totally. As I'm listening to you, a final question on this topic is for anyone listening who's like, “Great. This sounds like a lot of work. I have to now shift my core way of being and my behaviors and start asking these questions”, and you may have some people who are more resistant to that.

Why is this important? Why do we need to rethink these things?

Shakira Miracle  38:36  

This is important because in the United States alone, we have the largest rate of obesity in this country. I know people don't like to talk about it. I am not shaming people of different shapes and sizes. It's the healthiness of folks. It's not the number on the scale. It's the ratio within that, going back to good fat versus bad, in terms of overall health.

In my family there are two people who grew up very closely in poverty, lack of access to healthy nutritious food, a lack of learning and engagement with that healthy nutritious food, so therefore, never learning about the broad scope of food that is available to us to eat. And at one point between the two of them, one got serendipitous opportunities in the way of education, and that was like a snowball of opportunity; more opportunities of being exposed to different types of foods, other communities who make other types of choices, because they are empowered to do so. And they have the resources to do so without barriers.

And the other person didn't get those opportunities. Over time, the food that was available, made that person incredibly sick. So what I would say about “why” is, if you care about living, and living the most rich, exciting, joyous, adventurous life possible, you're going to think more about what you're putting into your body. Not just because of your health, but what you learn from new foods; how they make you feel, getting to a point of realizing that “Wait a minute, the way I feel is not normal. I just thought I was always supposed to feel this way.” And then the healthier you are, and the more rich and pleasurable your life is, you have more energy and determination to then look to the person to your right, and go, “Hey, you deserve this too. Let's fix this together.”

So of those two people, neither of them is any better, or smarter, or funnier or kinder than the other. One got an opportunity. One had access. One was able to afford it, whether it's through social interventions, local, more purchased it so it was cheaper, whatever that looks like. And the other one did not.

I am a caregiver, in my being, in my soul. And I'm going to do whatever it takes. I'm going to do whatever it takes to show and ask people to join in eating more variety, fixing the system that we are operating in, because the better you feel, the more you realize that this isn't normal. And therefore the system that we're operating in isn't normal either. If we want to increasingly feel better, the system has to increasingly change to allow us to increasingly feel better.

Emily Race  43:58  

I'm so grateful for you for being the caregiver that you are and the way that you're showing up for your own family. I’m getting very emotional by what you just shared. I imagine that would resonate with anyone who sees themselves either as that caregiver or sees the gap in health in their own family or community and knows that a better way is possible.

I hope that what you just shared in this entire podcast is going to give a little bit of inspiration of how someone can get their hands closer to the soil, literally and figuratively, and start to help make some changes.

Shakira Miracle  44:44  

All you need is opportunity exposure. That is just a top layer of the onion. And the more we do better and feel better, the more we realize, this is not normal. We don't have to live on this trajectory. We're not fated to live in this situation of lack of health, lack of nutrition.

I told you earlier that the work that we do comes down to trust. Trust builds community. Real change takes a community as a whole, no one person can make these impacts. So I really encourage people to fight as if it's your mother, your father, your sister, your brother, your daughter, your son, your, your nonbinary family member, your grandparent, your teacher, fight like hell, because it isn't okay, and it's not normal.

And it actually doesn't take much, it doesn't take much to make incredible change. It's shocking, actually, the small steps that you can take to greatly impact your own health, and therefore the health of your of your community.

Emily Race  46:20  

Let's just emphasize here, it's the also the larger ecosystem’s health, the health of our planet. It's all interconnected,

Shakira Miracle  46:30  

If you're putting your hands in filthy soil, or soil that no longer has the nutrients required, of course, you're gonna pull your hands out of it, you don't want to have anything to do with it, it's gonna make you sicker.

But if you get your hands in there and those microbes, and you know that something incredible is gonna grow in it and you know that it's very likely that if you plant it — how many of us have planted a seed, you know what I mean? Part of that is we didn't really have a full understanding of the soil, of the foundation.

Get in there, make mistakes, learn from your mistakes. Enjoy the fruit of that labor, literally, figuratively, nutritionally. And you'll do it again. And you'll do it again. And over time with consistency, it'll make a huge impact on your own body and health. And then those around you.

Emily Race  47:31  

We could keep we could keep going here.

What would support look like for the Santa Barbara County Food Action Network?

Shakira Miracle  47:44  

Oh, I appreciate it. In networks like ours across the country and beyond, it’s very important for folks to know that a lot of money goes into emergency feeding. And it should, because this is the system that has been built over the last 50 years. This is what we're stuck in right now. But we can't allow that trajectory to continue. So what I implore people to do is when they're giving, absolutely, you want to support organizations that are on the frontlines doing the direct service work, awesome.

But we need support. It's very hard to find support for the work that we do, which keeps the collective working together, focused on the upstream core issues, so that over time, we don't have as much emergency feeding. So as much as we can, let's start wrapping our head around more of a “both and” practice of giving. We would greatly appreciate it.

And know that we are values driven, so we're not just going to accept any support. We want to align with folks who understand that there is a greater system that needs some adjustment, it needs some change. Policy at the local or the federal level is commonly known, it's an open secret that they don't regularly evaluate or update policy legislation. Part of our work is to keep our eye on that ball. It's moving forward. So that's what I ask, is to consider the work of collective place-based change for the impact of all of us.

Emily Race  49:49  

Amazing. Well, I'm moved by this conversation, and I imagine anyone listening to this is left with a lot to think about.

Thank you so much, Shakira, for your time and for all that you're doing on the on the local level, county level and global level.

Shakira Miracle  50:13  

Thank you. And thank you for elevating this story. Because that's literally a reflection that we have shared values, because that's a reflection of the network. We equitably elevate voices. And the more that we do that, the more we start asking “why”, the more we're going to come together and find common ground in these great big issues that are really hard to fix.

Emily Race  50:41  

I love that always, asking “why”. Thank you again. 

Shakira Miracle  50:44  

Thank you. 

Emily Race  50:45  

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Founding Mothers Podcast. This podcast is produced and hosted by me Emily Race and edited by Eric Weisberg. If you want to support the show, please leave us a rating or share this episode with the important people in your life. We'd also love to hear from you if you or someone you know would be a great guest to share about their vision for the world. You can email emily@founding-mothers.com or visit www.founding-mothers.com/podcast

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